New share club process - please vote

Discussion of the proposed Cashback Investment Club

Moderator: CIC officers

Should the cashback investment club adopt the process outlined below?

Poll ended at Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:49 am

Yes
5
50%
No
5
50%
 
Total votes : 10

Re: New share club process - please vote

Postby garindan » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:42 pm

richard@imutual wrote:
garindan wrote:Another concern I have is capitalising loses on shares we have bought for income purposes.


This relates to the stop loss, I assume? We could perhaps have a separate discussion and poll on stop losses, though I do think we should have a set policy rather than deciding this on a share-by-share basis

What's your definition of "income share" and which of our investments to date would fit in this category?


I'll come back to this when I have a little more time but it is not just related to the stop:loss, in fact much less so than the prospect of them being on the table of choices to sell. The key is if we put longer-term income purchases on the chopping block it loses all sight of the bigger picture, which is very much less attractive as an investor in the Club.
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Re: New share club process - please vote

Postby richard@imutual » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:11 pm

But surely you can make that argument during the vote? Otherwise you're saying "We should never allow an 'income share' to be one of the sell nominations, even if members think it's a good idea"
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Re: New share club process - please vote

Postby kevinchess1 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:27 pm

Sometimes I wonder if members are keeping up with current events
We hold 9 shares ALL are down
Of those, 8 have paid us a dividend and, guess what?
We are still behind on those as well
WE HAVE spent 3 years trying to have a 'few shares for growth' and that clearly hasn't worked
Lets try something else.
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Re: New share club process - please vote

Postby garindan » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:09 pm

richard@imutual wrote:But surely you can make that argument during the vote? Otherwise you're saying "We should never allow an 'income share' to be one of the sell nominations, even if members think it's a good idea"


I think there should be parameters within those kind of buys whereby they cannot be nominated unless within a threshold.
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Re: New share club process - please vote

Postby garindan » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:34 pm

kevinchess1 wrote:Sometimes I wonder if members are keeping up with current events
We hold 9 shares ALL are down
Of those, 8 have paid us a dividend and, guess what?
We are still behind on those as well
WE HAVE spent 3 years trying to have a 'few shares for growth' and that clearly hasn't worked
Lets try something else.


However, not so long ago ITV was almost even, GSK and UU were nicely up. Long terms are swings and roundabouts. We were 15% up overall at one point if you remember. I think our NCC and Carillion choices have somewhat tainted views on our shares, aside from the obvious of Carillion wiping out £1300+ of our value through collapse. Hindsight is a great thing, but if we were to remove the disaster of Carillion from the stats we would actually still be up overall. Clearly in reality we invested in it and are now down, but I'm using this as a reference to performance and nothing else.
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Re: New share club process - please vote

Postby blythburgh » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:20 am

Not a member of the club as I cannot afford it but as one who really wants to see the club becoming successful and growing I am frustrated.

Garinden is right you must not let Carillion mistakes colour things. I hope past mistakes like not selling what is obviously a sinking ship so you get a litte of your money back will not be repeated.

And you also need to factor in to the paper losses the dividends received. And never forget it is only a paper loss, and sometimes you need to keep faith but at other times you must realise that the time has come to jump ship. My frustation that the votes went against selling Carillion can only have been beaten by the wiser heads in the club who had real money at stake.

There are differences in what Richard and what Garinden would like in the proposal as to how to go ahead. I would love for them to chat on the phone or better still over a cuppa of something. They could then come to an agreement on the way ahead and that could be put to the vote by the membership.

But in at the end of the day these are just the thoughts of a non club member so of course all decisions are up to club members
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Re: New share club process - please vote

Postby kevinchess1 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:04 pm

garindan wrote:
kevinchess1 wrote:But I haven’t seen any other proposal posted


I was waiting for you to post a proposal after your good original post on that discussion thread :(



My thoughts are Here
Funny though, I cant find ANY proposal from our Chairman?
There's lots of negative posting about other people ideas though
Funny that
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Re: New share club process - please vote

Postby garindan » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:05 pm

kevinchess1 wrote:My thoughts are Here
Funny though, I cant find ANY proposal from our Chairman?
There's lots of negative posting about other people ideas though
Funny that


Thoughts are great but putting together something like Richard has with some substance is a proposal, not five short sentences. I did mention that I felt too much of our direction was being led by me, Richard and a couple others. My view is that was unhealthy and we need other members to step up and put some concrete ideas down that cover the problems we have had thus far. As much as it is good you have posted, which I don't want to knock, what we need is more flesh on the bone in one coherent post that sets out how you would change things and how it solves the problems - such as how we select shares to vote for etc... I admire Richard for taking the time to do it but that does not mean I have to agree with everything he has suggested, as I'm entitled to an opinion as much as anyone else is in the club and I don't disagree with all of it - just some. Previously you have suggested I've pushed things through on my own agenda, which wasn't a fair interpretation in my opinion, but now you are saying I should be doing something and I think you'll find I've actually made quite a number of suggestions in the two threads we have had about this.

It might have been what has happened in the past but I don't think it is fair to expect the chairman, whether me or some other poor sucker, or any of the other officers for that matter to come up with loads of ideas, form each proposal and then put it out to vote. We are meant to be a group of equals that have formed a Club for mutual benefit and learning after all :(
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Re: New share club process - please vote

Postby richard@imutual » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:24 am

What would help is if those who have voted against could summarise which of the items 1-5 are they opposed to, and what alternative proposal they'd like to see in each case (I know garindan and beachboy have already commented at length, but summarising in the above form would be helpful)

This will help to draft an amended proposal if necessary

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Re: New share club process - please vote

Postby an6ypan6y » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:46 am

Here's my feedback:

1. Set a maximum number of different investments that the club should aim to hold. (to be agreed separately)
Agreed - how about setting a minimum as well

2. At regular, fixed intervals (to be agreed separately), we hold two parallel votes; a new stock to buy and one to sell (unless at that time we hold less than the maximum agreed above, in which case no sell vote is necessary).
Do not agree - if at the given fixed interval there are no attractive shares to buy then the club would be steamrollered in to buying unsuitable share(s). That rule also assumes funds will be available to make a purchase. Better surely to operate more closely to the current method of 'when funds are available' and to always have a 'none of the above' option available. This rule also puts us in the potential position of selling a share at the wrong time.


3. Each decision will be a straight choice between 3 stocks. No "If price reaches X" or "None of the above"
On the fence on this one, A purchase should surely be based upon an agreeable purchase price, the value of shares can move rapidly either way and with the speed we come to agreement a purchase decision could easily become off-target. Do not get rid of none of the above option because that assumes there will always be a share we want to buy and sell.


4. Once the voting has closed, we execute the "sell" decision first and then use the proceeds, plus whatever cash is in our account, to invest in the "buy" stock. These actions take place immediately at whatever is the prevailing price
Do not agree, it is impractical to marry up buy and sell deals just because a club rule stipulates this action, this puts us in the potential position of selling a share at the wrong time.


5. We automatically apply a standard "stop loss" to all purchases e.g. 20% below purchase price.
Agree in principal, discussion needed on the amount we are prepared to use as the trigger.

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