40 Stores to Close... (part 2)

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Re: 40 Stores to Close... (part 2)

Postby blythburgh » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:46 am

Boro Boy wrote:Poundland slashes prices - headline: https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/business/ ... k-14840208


Poundworld not Poundland
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Re: 40 Stores to Close... (part 2)

Postby blythburgh » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:51 am

RonFlorabud wrote:
blythburgh wrote:
RonFlorabud wrote:Sounds good to me.
The more shops close, less reason to waste time on the high street.
Love how some seem to criticise online businesses such as Amazon.


What I hate about Amazon et al is the way they avoid paying corporation tax and virtually avoid the crippling business rates of the high street.


Yes, they avoid, but perfectly legally. Business rates are one of the costs of being on the High Street. Things change, the High Street is sadly no longer viable for many busineses. Successful businesses look at costs, how to minimize costs and therefore able to pass savings onto consumers. Sorry, but I'm going to shop where's most convenient and offers the best price and service. Amazon usually meets the criteria for all of this.

We still need the High Street to give the "cash" payers and shoplifters a place to go. Sadly, I'm not interested in subsidising that. I appreciate many are. That's the choice we have.



I doubt anyone here would deny the future is online.


But some of us do not want to subsidise online shopping. They are now cracking down in Amerca and states will be able to tax goods bought online in the same way they do for instore shopping.

And some of us pay income tax before the money hits the "pay packet" whilst we all pay taxes like VAT and petrol/alcohol etc and object to laws that allow some people and companies to legally avoid paying tax. Those of us who object want loopholes closed.
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Re: 40 Stores to Close... (part 2)

Postby pabenny » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:47 am

What I hate about Amazon et al is the way they avoid paying corporation tax..


Yes, they avoid, but perfectly legally.


Yes, it's legal. But is it right?

Different countries have different tax rates, and different tax rules for some types of income. For example the amazon trade mark may be owned in Switzerland or another low tax country. A percentage of their sales income goes to Switzerland as a royalty and is taxed there rather than in the UK.

When you buy from amazon, you're actually buying from a Luxembourg company who outsource fulfilment to a UK company. Again, this allows profit to be transferred out of the UK to a country with lower tax rates, and potentially other more favourable rules.

Behind the scenes there may be a corporate structure where some activities centralised are in Ireland and the financing structure goes via the British Virgin Islands. Has no commercial logic but does serve to shelter profits from UK tax and possibly all tax.

But it's not just amazon. Currys' website is opaque about who you are buying from - when I made an online purchase a few years ago, I found that I'd actually transacted with Currys Croatia or Slovakia or some such.

I know of another household name grocery manufacturer who has also moved their trademarks to Switzerland.

Yes, it's all legal. But right? I think not.

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Re: 40 Stores to Close... (part 2)

Postby pabenny » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:56 am

blythburgh wrote:But some of us do not want to subsidise online shopping. They are now cracking down in Amerca and states will be able to tax goods bought online in the same way they do for instore shopping.

And some of us pay income tax before the money hits the "pay packet" whilst we all pay taxes like VAT and petrol/alcohol etc and object to laws that allow some people and companies to legally avoid paying tax. Those of us who object want loopholes closed.


amazon et al quite correctly (sort of) claim they pay all the taxes due when what they largely mean is they correctly account for taxes they collect.

VAT and excise duties on fuel, alcohol, tobacco are taxes paid by the end consumer and are difficult to avoid legally. amazon and any other retailer are merely tax collectors.

Likewise, for income tax on wages and salaries, employers are also just tax collectors. National insurance is a tax on both employee and employer and is one of the reasons some businesses try to make workers self-employed (uber, deliveroo, etc)

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Re: 40 Stores to Close... (part 2)

Postby planteria » Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:24 am

blythburgh wrote:...They are now cracking down in Amerca and states will be able to tax goods bought online in the same way they do for instore shopping.


if that happens then the market could change significantly, but i can't see it.

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Re: 40 Stores to Close... (part 2)

Postby pabenny » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:39 pm

In America, you can often escape sales tax by having goods shipped from a retailer with no presence in your state. Some states are changing that rule so that online sellers from out of state still have to collect local sales tax.

The effect is that sales tax on high street and online sales will be the same - so no inherent price advantage for online shopping.

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Re: 40 Stores to Close... (part 2)

Postby Boro Boy » Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:44 pm

The problem spreads outside of high street retail: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44681564
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Re: 40 Stores to Close... (part 2)

Postby planteria » Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:11 pm

indeed, and again is any surprised? if you want a house where do you look?
a board outside a house can still be useful, but i look on rightmove. and if Purple Bricks are offering a zero commission deal, i'd be selling via PB than via a local estate agency - unless there was a good reason not to.

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Re: 40 Stores to Close... (part 2)

Postby pabenny » Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:43 pm

I don't think this one is directly down to online estate agents, despite the heavy TV advertising by one two brands - although undoubtedly it will be driving down fees.

BBC news wrote:One of the main reasons is a long-term decline in property sales.


People tend to move house less frequently once they have children in school, so with younger generations being priced out of the property market, there are fewer transactions.

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Re: 40 Stores to Close... (part 2)

Postby macliam » Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:23 pm

pabenny wrote:I don't think this one is directly down to online estate agents, despite the heavy TV advertising by one two brands - although undoubtedly it will be driving down fees.

BBC news wrote:One of the main reasons is a long-term decline in property sales.


People tend to move house less frequently once they have children in school, so with younger generations being priced out of the property market, there are fewer transactions.

OK, firstly the percentage commission is having to drop because of the obscene amount of money Estate Agents were making per sale, based on increased property values. Secondly, people are questioning why such services should be paid for on a percentage basis at all - you don't buy other things that way. Thirdly, the volume of sales is not high and there are far too many estate Agents with a High Street presence. So it's a market ripe for the plucking..... ;)

Some estate agents have cut their commission to 1% or less, some have played with fixed-fee deals, now there are the internet boys involved. Soon you'll be buying UK property via E-Z (pronounced eezee) Realtors in Dallas, talking to "Duncan" in Bangalore, who'll try to convince you to take out a maintenance contract on your computer at the same time. :roll:

However, E-Z cowboy ...... because most of these online folk don't want to take the risk of "No Sale", so sting you for money up-front. That way, they make money regardless and you pay out even if nobody pays in. :wtf:

Just because Estate Agencies are going online, it doesn't make them better - a shark doesn't change its spots, as it were :shifty:
Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get me

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