Is the Euro experiment about to collapse...?

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Re: Is the Euro experiment about to collapse...?

Postby William Joseph1 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:10 am

blythburgh wrote:And given the death of some leave voters and the amount of people who were denied a vote because they were in the 16 to 18 age group (precedence for them getting a vote in the Scottish Referendum) who would overwhellmingly vote remain and if those who have lived abroad for over 15 years had been given the vote (a promise the Tories gave them years ago to boost their vote in General Elections) then if the vote was today Remain would win by a small percentage. And you can add those who only voted leave because of the LIE about the NHS on the Leave Bus.
All of that may be true but what relevance does any of this have for today?

None. There is not going to be another referendum. Sit back relax and wait for the outcome, because you and I will have no say in it and no point in reliving the past. I prefer to enjoy watching the spectacle and and watch the money that could be better spent elsewhere being wasted away by the idiots who call themselves politicians.

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Re: Is the Euro experiment about to collapse...?

Postby Chadwick » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:04 am

William Joseph1 wrote:[I prefer to enjoy watching the spectacle and and watch the money that could be better spent elsewhere being wasted away by the idiots who call themselves politicians.

To be honest, I'd prefer not to have to watch that.

I'd prefer to put the whole thing on hold while we work out what we want instead of the EU, and THEN trigger Article 50 if we think we've found a good alternative.

At the moment we have a blind rush to get whatever we can keep of our EU relationship, without knowing what we want or value most or what impact it will have (ie. how much of a negative impact according to what work has been done). All so that Theresa May can keep her job.


A few posts ago, someone questioned whether it was relevant to talk about Brexit in the context of a thread about the future of the European Union. I think it is. Britain is in the process of finding out if it is better off in or out of the EU. That will have an impact on whether other countries also consider it.
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Re: Is the Euro experiment about to collapse...?

Postby William Joseph1 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:13 am

Chadwick wrote:I'd prefer to put the whole thing on hold while we work out what we want instead of the EU, and THEN trigger Article 50 if we think we've found a good alternative.
TBH all our preferences are quite irrelevant. The Cast has been agreed, the stage is set. The play will run till its bitter end and anything you or I say will make no difference. That is what democracy is actually about.

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Re: Is the Euro experiment about to collapse...?

Postby Chadwick » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:37 am

William Joseph1 wrote:
Chadwick wrote:I'd prefer to put the whole thing on hold while we work out what we want instead of the EU, and THEN trigger Article 50 if we think we've found a good alternative.
TBH all our preferences are quite irrelevant. The Cast has been agreed, the stage is set. The play will run till its bitter end and anything you or I say will make no difference. That is what democracy is actually about.

Really? Sounds more like a dictatorship or communism. I thought democracy had something to with people having some ability to influence the cast and the plot.

If you're genuinely not bothered how Brexit turns out, that's fine. No need to keep telling us that you have no opinion. I'm not sure why you're following this thread. But please allow those of us with an opinion to air it and discuss it.
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Re: Is the Euro experiment about to collapse...?

Postby William Joseph1 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:55 am

No one is saying you should not have a say and I have never said I do not have an opinion. The reality is I have a very firm opinion that to leave the EU is the wrong thing to do. However I am being a realist and no matter how much you I blythburgh or anyone else wants to leave or stay, anything said by you I or blythburgh will not affect the outcome in any way. The only way that can happen is to have another referendum. For sure that will not be allowed by our political masters.

Chadwick wrote:Really? Sounds more like a dictatorship or communism. I thought democracy had something to with people having some ability to influence the cast and the plot.
How do you think you can influence the cast or plot?

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Re: Is the Euro experiment about to collapse...?

Postby macliam » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:50 am

I have to agree with WJ, the die was cast once the referendum results came in (if not before). It is now just a matter of damage limitation (or not). Given my situation, it is fairly obvious that I think leaving the EU is the most stupid thing the UK has done for a long time (and they have done a few) and the impact on me and mine is more than I could have feared.

Sterling has devalued by 30% against the "basketcase" Euro and my personal portfolio has taken a hit of about 50% due to the uncertainty in the market, so financially I've been robbed. But worse - I still don't know what the situation will be for SWMBO in the "brave new world" of Brexit, we have just celebrated our 29th anniversary, she has a paper giving he "right to remain" from around 1991, but she has no passport (she doesn't need one), therefore no visa stamp and no proof other that this tatty typewritten piece of paper. So, I don't know what hoops we'll have to jump through and how much it will cost, just to stand still - and of course, there's nobody to ask because nobody has a clue and the Home Office are too busy denying valid applications in order to prove how tough they are :roll:

Then there's the uncertainty over the border and the knock-on effects on British-Irish relationships thereafter. I have lived and worked in the UK for 40 years and through some tough times, but after all the advances of the last few years I can see it unravelling. I also see a crisis being imposed on Ireland by way of Brexit, politically and commercially ..... how will Irish companies export to the rest of the EU after whatever fudge is put in place at the borders? What impact might all this have ofn the delicate balance in the North? What will the knock-on effects be south of the border? It might not worry the Brexiteers, but it does me...

This thread started as an attempt to suggest the EU was in trouble because Italy has the same bureaucratic problems it always had. Well, take a look at the UK - apart from pie in the sky, misconceptions and distortions of the truth, what do you know about what awaits you post-Brexit? You now live in the world of 80/20 where decisions are made on the hop to suit the majority and the others can go hang. As for the division that this has sown within the UK - and even within each constituent part, let's not start. Turkeys really do vote for Christmas.......
Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get me

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Re: Is the Euro experiment about to collapse...?

Postby Chadwick » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:18 pm

William Joseph1 wrote:However I am being a realist and no matter how much you I blythburgh or anyone else wants to leave or stay, anything said by you I or blythburgh will not affect the outcome in any way. The only way that can happen is to have another referendum. For sure that will not be allowed by our political masters.

I disagree. If everyone does nothing and accepts whatever the government does, how will the government know they are doing what we want - or don't want. Only by making a public display that we are not happy with their decisions will we be able to guide them in serving our interests.

The classic example is the Poll Tax. If everyone had just put up and shut up, we'd still have it.


William Joseph1 wrote:
Chadwick wrote:Really? Sounds more like a dictatorship or communism. I thought democracy had something to with people having some ability to influence the cast and the plot.
How do you think you can influence the cast or plot?

It was a general reference to your comment about democracy. Democracy is a system where the people get to vote on their representatives and by extension their policies. A system where we have no control is not a democracy. For example, we could have voted in the Lib Dems at the last general election, along with their policy of stopping brexit. For various reasons, that didn't happen, but democracy means we could have done so, thereby influencing the cast and plot of our play.
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Re: Is the Euro experiment about to collapse...?

Postby Constantine » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:37 pm

macliam wrote:...

This thread started as an attempt to suggest the EU was in trouble because Italy has the same bureaucratic problems it always had. ....


No, I think that's another thread. This thread is about the suggestion that Italy might bring down the Euro. It's possible. Every previous attempt at establishing a European currency union has failed, after all.
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Re: Is the Euro experiment about to collapse...?

Postby Chadwick » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:42 pm

Constantine wrote:
macliam wrote:...

This thread started as an attempt to suggest the EU was in trouble because Italy has the same bureaucratic problems it always had. ....


No, I think that's another thread. This thread is about the suggestion that Italy might bring down the Euro. It's possible. Every previous attempt at establishing a European currency union has failed, after all.

I'm not sure Boro Boy knew what he was talking about when he started the thread. He referred to the "Euro experiment". Was he referring to the EU or the euro (€, correctly written with a lowercase e), neither of which is an experiment. Maybe he meant something happening at CERN?
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Re: Is the Euro experiment about to collapse...?

Postby pabenny » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:30 pm

Chadwick wrote:I'm not sure Boro Boy knew what he was talking about...


Well...
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