MPs call for social care tax for over 40s

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Re: MPs call for social care tax for over 40s

Postby William Joseph1 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:38 am

Boro Boy wrote:
William Joseph1 wrote:It was prompted by two select committees of the houses of Parliament

The House of Commons Health and Social Care and Housing, Communities and Local Government Committees and nothing to do with the Health Minister. if you think otherwise then you need to bone up on how Parliament works.

Get Real - the real truth is the Government wouldn't waste all this civil service time unless they wanted to bring in new legislation...
The government has not yet wasted any time. Select committees are not part of government but are cross party groups of the House of Commons, they can make recommendations but do not make legislation.

The government has made it clear that they will be bringing in a consultation document (White Paper) in the autumn. That may or may not lead to legislation. It is you that needs to get real and not believe all that is written in the dubious press that you seem to be so fond of reading.

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Re: MPs call for social care tax for over 40s

Postby pabenny » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:12 am

Boro Boy wrote:..why should I pay more that a 39 year old who more than likely has the same life challenges ahead as me?


The select committee report expresses it in terms of generational fairness. A couple of examples
- older people are more likely to have final salary pensions which are (more or less) guaranteed, will pay for life, and are inflation-linked. Younger people are much more likely to have a money purchase pension which is much lower and less certain in value.
- those older people who went to university benefited from not having to pay fees and in many cases received a maintenance grant. Today's graduates have a substantial student debt.

Of course those things are not true of every person but they are true taking the age groups as a whole.

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Re: MPs call for social care tax for over 40s

Postby pabenny » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:14 am

And on 'wasting time' - committees and consultations are a great way for governments to defer difficult* decisions.

(* difficult - meaning electorally unpopular, will generate unwelcome headlines, will alienate part of their core or marginal supporters)

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Re: MPs call for social care tax for over 40s

Postby Boro Boy » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:59 am

William Joseph1 wrote:
Boro Boy wrote:
William Joseph1 wrote:It was prompted by two select committees of the houses of Parliament

The House of Commons Health and Social Care and Housing, Communities and Local Government Committees and nothing to do with the Health Minister. if you think otherwise then you need to bone up on how Parliament works.

Get Real - the real truth is the Government wouldn't waste all this civil service time unless they wanted to bring in new legislation...
The government has not yet wasted any time. Select committees are not part of government but are cross party groups of the House of Commons, they can make recommendations but do not make legislation.

The government has made it clear that they will be bringing in a consultation document (White Paper) in the autumn. That may or may not lead to legislation. It is you that needs to get real and not believe all that is written in the dubious press that you seem to be so fond of reading.


"...wasting civil servant time.." was the comment but as Pabenny suggested perhaps this was precisely the Governments intention...?
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Re: MPs call for social care tax for over 40s

Postby Constantine » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:55 pm

Select committees were invented in order to give bank bench MPs something to do. Other than conspire against the party leadership and generally cause trouble. Their reports often contain 'controversial' proposals in order to generate a few headlines here and there. It makes the whole exercise look worthwhile.

I'd guess that governments sometime take notice of them.
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Re: MPs call for social care tax for over 40s

Postby blythburgh » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:23 pm

Boro Boy wrote:
William Joseph1 wrote:Until such time as the government adopts this green paper as policy (or not) and it is made into a white paper. What you are attempting to discuss is hypothetical at the best and and at worse a load of hot air and scaremongering. The truth is no one at the moment is in a position to discuss the governments position which will be outlined in the autumn.



The mere fact it has been made public is a "testing the water" approach and if it doesn't raise a storm they would no doubt try and adopt it as policy... :eh:


It had to be made public but I am sure the Govt. will take note of the reaction before making any decisions based on this green paper.
Keep smiling because the light at the end of someone's tunnel may be you, Ron Cheneler

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Re: MPs call for social care tax for over 40s

Postby Constantine » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:00 pm

What "this green paper"?

The government green paper has yet to be published.
https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk ... y/CBP-8002

A select committee report is not a green paper.

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Re: MPs call for social care tax for over 40s

Postby William Joseph1 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:38 pm

Constantine wrote:What "this green paper"?

The government green paper has yet to be published.
https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk ... y/CBP-8002

A select committee report is not a green paper.
See my original post, second post in this thread
William Joseph1 wrote:This is a joint report from two select committees of parliament, it is advisory and may or may not influence the governments green paper which is scheduled to be published in the autumn. The commitees took evidence from many sources including the Citizens Assembly on Social Care which met in Birmingham over two recent weekends. The funding of Social Care is something which needs to be tackled urgently and has been avoided by successive governments for over 20 years. I hold my breath to see if Theresa Mays government adopts or takes on any of the suggestions in any part of this report.

The full report for more information is here: https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/c ... 68/768.pdf
So there was a bit of subsequent confusion. Whats new? When has anything ever been 100% accurate in the imutual forums?

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Re: MPs call for social care tax for over 40s

Postby blythburgh » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:31 am

Constantine wrote:Select committees were invented in order to give bank bench MPs something to do. Other than conspire against the party leadership and generally cause trouble. Their reports often contain 'controversial' proposals in order to generate a few headlines here and there. It makes the whole exercise look worthwhile.

I'd guess that governments sometime take notice of them.


Select committees are great in that they can get Cabinet Minsiters and even Prime Ministers in front of them and give them a better grilling than they get at PMQ's. The great and the good outside of Parliament are called in front of them and questioned and critised in a way that never happens in the real world. I still remember how the all powerful Rupert Mucdoch was brought to account by a Select Committee. And I would say nobody ever felt comfortable about having to appear before Margaret Hodge and her colleagues.

And they can discuss things like this and make suggestions. How many actually make it as far as a white paper and eventually a potential new law or change to existing law is up to the Government of the day.
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Re: MPs call for social care tax for over 40s

Postby Constantine » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:40 pm

William Joseph1 wrote:
When has anything ever been 100% accurate in the imutual forums?


Only when the name Constantine appears. :)

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