Nigel Farage resigns as leader of UKIP

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Re: Nigel Farage resigns as leader of UKIP

Postby macliam » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:17 am

The wierd thing is, many, many other nationalities died in the two world wars, but only the English seem to think it makes them a special case. Pictures of the first war are poignant, since working men on all sides died in a war that was not to their benefit and were then screwed by their governments when they got home. Almost everything that has benefitted the man in the street has come about since WW2 ended.

27 other nations have pooled sovereignty, some of them paid the price for Churchill's backroom deals with Joe Stalin, some lived through years of dictatorship without any help from outside, some struggled to rebuild thir countries twice in one century, but they are all wrong, all sheep, because only the English know best.

To use the images of past conflict is as reprehensible as using pictures of refugees when talking about EU migration. Either the people involved are truly ignorant of the facts, or they will use anything to tug at the heartstrings and advance their case....

IN MY OPINION
Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get me

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Re: Nigel Farage resigns as leader of UKIP

Postby blythburgh » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:46 am

I come from generations of soldiers by blood, was raised by a man who volunteered in 1914 and was on the front line until 1918. He was wounded and gassed.

He voted yes in the first referendum and I am sure he would have voted yes in the last one.

How dare anyone use my forebears to attack those of us who voted to remain in the EU.
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Re: Nigel Farage resigns as leader of UKIP

Postby Chadwick » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:57 am

The war generations did indeed fight for our freedom and unimaginable numbers died for it. As the dust began to settle, they said "never again" and started to find a way of binding Europe together so that a further conflict would be impossible. The result was the European Community, now the European Union.

If we're going to talk about "betraying" those who fell, I think we need to think hard about what they created for us, and what we are undoing now.

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Re: Nigel Farage resigns as leader of UKIP

Postby 1960mackem » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:14 am

Conflict dons many a disguise but sometimes you are too blind to recognise it

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Re: Nigel Farage resigns as leader of UKIP

Postby blythburgh » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:15 am

Chadwick wrote:The war generations did indeed fight for our freedom and unimaginable numbers died for it. As the dust began to settle, they said "never again" and started to find a way of binding Europe together so that a further conflict would be impossible. The result was the European Community, now the European Union.

If we're going to talk about "betraying" those who fell, I think we need to think hard about what they created for us, and what we are undoing now.


WW1 was the war to end all wars and they then made sure there was a peace agreement that would ensure there would be WW2.

At least after that war they tried to make sure Western Europe would not make the mistakes made after the previous one.
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Re: Nigel Farage resigns as leader of UKIP

Postby Chadwick » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:44 am

kevinchess1 wrote:
Chadwick wrote:
Luke_PieStalker wrote:Whether you agree with the outcome, wish people would put their dummys back in and get on with it. :thumbup:

We're still in the middle of it. I think it's fair to carry on discussing what happens next.
The people have spoken and given a blurred answer.


Except they haven't
Well I say they haven't it depends on your definition of 'blurred'

Here's what I mean by "blurred":

The non-binding advisory referendum has returned a slight margin in favour of leaving the EU.
This includes people who want to:
  • Completely exit the EU and stand entirely on our own two feet.
  • Leave the political and financial aspects, but retain all the commercial and trade benefits.
  • Pick and choose exactly which bits we want to keep and which to lose.
  • Make sure the UK is in no danger of adopting the Euro.
  • Make sure the UK is not associated with the European Army.
  • Make sure the UK is not subject to EU regulations that we disagree with.
  • Reduce 'red tape' in employment and business administration.
  • Sell bendy cucumbers and bananas in bunches of 3.
  • Send a warning to the establishment that we are not happy.
  • Just vote against anything supported by the pig-fetishist Cameron.
  • Prevent future immigration from Turkey.
  • Limit or control future immigration from Europe.
  • Control all immigration whether from Europe or not.
  • Repatriate all Europeans currently in the UK.
  • Repatriate all East Europeans currently in the UK.
  • Repatriate all foreigners currently in the UK.
  • Deport all foreigners accused of a crime.
  • Deport all foreigners convicted of a crime.
  • Stop illegal immigrants coming to the UK.
  • Prevent refugees settling in the UK.
  • Outlaw hijabs, mosques and other Islamic symbols.
  • Mend all our potholes instead of building bridges in Greece.
  • Give £350m each week to the NHS.
  • Give £350m each week to any public sector organisations.
  • Give £100m each week to the public sector.
  • Decide for ourselves where to spend our cash, instead of having to ask the EU for grants.
  • Create our own British version of the Human Rights Act.
  • Create UK legislation that benefits UK people.
There's probably more, but it boils down to three groups:
  • People with rational reasons for wanting a change and believing that exiting the EU is the best way to effect that change.
  • People who believed the lies pedalled by Johnson, Gove and Farage.
  • People with far-right views about who should be allowed in this country.

So, what are the leave voters asking Parliament to do? It's not really clear. Assuming we can discount the far-right and the lies, we're still left with a range of views on how much to leave the EU and what to do next. Whatever Parliament decides is 'best' will still let down many leave voters who wanted something different.

This is why I say 'blurred'. It's not clear what the leave voters want, and it is not clear what is really in the best interests of the country.

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Re: Nigel Farage resigns as leader of UKIP

Postby Chadwick » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:48 am

1960mackem wrote:Conflict dons many a disguise but sometimes you are too blind to recognise it

That is true.
Will we avoid conflict (in general terms) by trying to work together as a whole, or by each independently pursuing our own agendas?

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Re: Nigel Farage resigns as leader of UKIP

Postby 1960mackem » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:18 am

Chadwick wrote:
1960mackem wrote:Conflict dons many a disguise but sometimes you are too blind to recognise it

That is true.
Will we avoid conflict (in general terms) by trying to work together as a whole, or by each independently pursuing our own agendas?


There will always be conflict until a common goal is reached by 100% of the people and we know that will never ever happen :(
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