WARNING: For all those diving within the M25...

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Re: WARNING: For all those diving within the M25...

Postby macliam » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:11 am

So, the new rules won't hurt anyone but " commercial vehicles and rich playboys" then (although there seemed to be a heck of a lot of those on my last visit!)

By extending the area of the charge, Khan would catch more residents - whereas it's the commuters who caused the issues in the past. If he extended the charge period, he would have hurt residents and visitors alike. The problem is that when you have a city with a population bigger than many countries, all concentrated in a small area, it will always be difficult to tackle pollution ..... unless you want to make the centre a purely commercial area.
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Re: WARNING: For all those diving within the M25...

Postby Boro Boy » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:46 am

William Joseph wrote:
Fuggsy wrote:To be accurate, it's within the Central London [congestion zone], not within the M25.

Image

There's quite a difference.
I did know that, but as the OP seems to have a cob on about the London Mayor and seems to enjoy posting inaccurate information. I let it slide rather than correct him. Having said that, it is a useful topic to raise. Just as long as the rhetoric is left out.


Nothing is clear about these new "Laws" even when you try and call TFL they don't seem to know what's happening - the Ultra Low Emissions Zone (not due to be installed until 2020) is inside the M25 - all cars over 13 years old will see some effect from that. The "T-Charge" takes effect from 23/10/2017

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Re: WARNING: For all those diving within the M25...

Postby Boro Boy » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:51 am

macliam wrote:So, the new rules won't hurt anyone but " commercial vehicles and rich playboys" then (although there seemed to be a heck of a lot of those on my last visit!)

By extending the area of the charge, Khan would catch more residents - whereas it's the commuters who caused the issues in the past. If he extended the charge period, he would have hurt residents and visitors alike. The problem is that when you have a city with a population bigger than many countries, all concentrated in a small area, it will always be difficult to tackle pollution ..... unless you want to make the centre a purely commercial area.



The Centre is also residential - but your missing my point - there will be a lot of people caught by this new "T-Charge" from the 23/10/2017 onwards who have no idea that it exists! To cross London many people need to go through this area. There has been very little advertising of it and what information has come out leads to confusion, even when you manage to speak to TFL staff (which is near impossible). I bet the charge notices that come out afterwards will be very clear! - you drivers owe TFL money!!!

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Re: WARNING: For all those diving within the M25...

Postby macliam » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:27 pm

Boro Boy wrote:The Centre is also residential - but your missing my point - there will be a lot of people caught by this new "T-Charge" from the 23/10/2017 onwards who have no idea that it exists! To cross London many people need to go through this area. There has been very little advertising of it and what information has come out leads to confusion, even when you manage to speak to TFL staff (which is near impossible). I bet the charge notices that come out afterwards will be very clear! - you drivers owe TFL money!!!

Ummm - from the TfL website (https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/emissions-surcharge):
Location

The T-Charge will operate in central London, and applies to the same area as the Congestion Charge. Find out more about the Congestion Charge and where it operates.

Hours of operation
Monday - Friday, 07:00 - 18:00
Excludes Bank Holidays and the period between Christmas Day and New Year's Day inclusive



So where's this confusion? :eh:
Last edited by macliam on Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WARNING: For all those diving within the M25...

Postby William Joseph » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:27 pm

Boro Boy wrote:
macliam wrote:So, the new rules won't hurt anyone but " commercial vehicles and rich playboys" then (although there seemed to be a heck of a lot of those on my last visit!)

By extending the area of the charge, Khan would catch more residents - whereas it's the commuters who caused the issues in the past. If he extended the charge period, he would have hurt residents and visitors alike. The problem is that when you have a city with a population bigger than many countries, all concentrated in a small area, it will always be difficult to tackle pollution ..... unless you want to make the centre a purely commercial area.



The Centre is also residential - but your missing my point - there will be a lot of people caught by this new "T-Charge" from the 23/10/2017 onwards who have no idea that it exists! To cross London many people need to go through this area. There has been very little advertising of it and what information has come out leads to confusion, even when you manage to speak to TFL staff (which is near impossible). I bet the charge notices that come out afterwards will be very clear! - you drivers owe TFL money!!!
I am sure that when people attempt to pay the original charge that they do know about. they will be alerted to the fact that it has increased or that there is an additional charge and they will be given the opportunity to pay before penalty charge notices are sent out. So I see no need for you to to continue with your scaremongering.
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Re: WARNING: For all those diving within the M25...

Postby Boro Boy » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:41 pm

William Joseph wrote:
Boro Boy wrote:
macliam wrote:So, the new rules won't hurt anyone but " commercial vehicles and rich playboys" then (although there seemed to be a heck of a lot of those on my last visit!)

By extending the area of the charge, Khan would catch more residents - whereas it's the commuters who caused the issues in the past. If he extended the charge period, he would have hurt residents and visitors alike. The problem is that when you have a city with a population bigger than many countries, all concentrated in a small area, it will always be difficult to tackle pollution ..... unless you want to make the centre a purely commercial area.



The Centre is also residential - but your missing my point - there will be a lot of people caught by this new "T-Charge" from the 23/10/2017 onwards who have no idea that it exists! To cross London many people need to go through this area. There has been very little advertising of it and what information has come out leads to confusion, even when you manage to speak to TFL staff (which is near impossible). I bet the charge notices that come out afterwards will be very clear! - you drivers owe TFL money!!!
I am sure that when people attempt to pay the original charge that they do know about. they will be alerted to the fact that it has increased or that there is an additional charge and they will be given the opportunity to pay before penalty charge notices are sent out. So I see no need for you to to continue with your scaremongering.


Since when has making people aware of a potential charge to themselves, which few are aware of, classed as "Scaremongering"? I suppose I should be pleased as evidence of your usual comment at this point is "rubbish"!

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Re: WARNING: For all those diving within the M25...

Postby William Joseph » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:48 pm

It has been pointed out that there is no confusion or should be none as the website is accurate. So I regard your alarmist tone regarding this as scaremongering. You of course do not. I accept that. As I see no basis for an agreement I guess we have no need for any further dialogue on the matter.
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Re: WARNING: For all those diving within the M25...

Postby Boro Boy » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:59 pm

William Joseph wrote:It has been pointed out that there is no confusion or should be none as the website is accurate. So I regard your alarmist tone regarding this as scaremongering. You of course do not. I accept that. As I see no basis for an agreement I guess we have no need for any further dialogue on the matter.


I think the point is being missed, I am just making people aware: there is little if any advertising regards this new charge so I would guess there will be people traveling in or through the zone on 23rd Oct+ who will be unaware they even need to look out for a new charge let alone if it effects them. The other point is when you can finally get though to a member of staff at TFL (difficult believe me) they know little or nothing about this charge either (an abrupt conversation with one unhelpful member of staff was had who stated "I only know about the congestion charge!" ) - but my guess is they will suddenly become very aware when they are dishing out penalty charges.

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Re: WARNING: For all those diving within the M25...

Postby Dream on » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:11 pm

As I see it and for what its worth there is no issue. When people go to pay the charge they will have a heart attack at the massive increase and will not travel so there will be no need for a penalty charge notice. Those that survive and do travel will have paid. so again no need for a PCN. If the issue is about the rudeness of staff then use Twitter to complain it seems to be the main channel of communication nowadays. Twitter will give more publicity to the matter than will ever be gained on here, where the majority of members probably have no concern about what is happening to driving in London anyway.

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Re: WARNING: For all those diving within the M25...

Postby Sarah » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:42 pm

macliam wrote:So where's this confusion? :eh:


The 'emissions standards' rules and exemptions aren't as straightforward as the congestion charge, so it's not difficult to envisage some drivers being unaware of how it affects their vehicle or journey. The information on the official website didn't really help much until I found the VRM checker and even then whilst it indicates whether or not a vehicle is subject to the T-Charge it doesn't give definitive answers regarding the Low Emission Zone (LEZ) and Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ). It does link separate checkers for those... surely 4 different sets of restrictions/charges (in addition to the Dartford Crossing tolls) for driving on public roads in London is a bit much; maybe they should consider introducing a "universal" charge or at least a universal checker!

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