How much of imutual do you own?

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Expand view Topic review: How much of imutual do you own?

Re: How much of imutual do you own?

by rayf » Sun Dec 04 2011 1:13pm

ianell wrote:
ianell wrote:
Me too but we won't know that until we get to eat it. The point is the cake is thick and you can eat it right now!!! :lol:

and I love cake!

Re: How much of imutual do you own?

by ianell » Sun Dec 04 2011 12:45pm

annfen wrote:
ianell wrote:I wouldn't lose much sleep worrying about how much of the business we all own, there are lots of variables as Richard has pointed out. Like any commodity share only become worth anything when they're sold. My advice would be to keep pocketing the cashback! Share are just the icing on the cake.

Ian
I hope the icing is thick! :)
Me too but we won't know that until we get to eat it. The point is the cake is thick and you can eat it right now!!! :lol:

Re: How much of imutual do you own?

by annfen » Sun Dec 04 2011 12:26pm

ianell wrote:I wouldn't lose much sleep worrying about how much of the business we all own, there are lots of variables as Richard has pointed out. Like any commodity share only become worth anything when they're sold. My advice would be to keep pocketing the cashback! Share are just the icing on the cake.

Ian
I hope the icing is thick! :)

Re: How much of imutual do you own?

by ianell » Sun Dec 04 2011 12:18pm

I wouldn't lose much sleep worrying about how much of the business we all own, there are lots of variables as Richard has pointed out. Like any commodity share only become worth anything when they're sold. My advice would be to keep pocketing the cashback! Share are just the icing on the cake.

Ian

Re: How much of imutual do you own?

by cccashbacklover » Sun Dec 04 2011 11:05am

Bruce wrote:
myfyr wrote:I own 0.2% then!

Who's the largest * shareholder?

(* by number of shares, obviously)
Based on the annual reports filed in June 2011, the largest three shareholders are as follows:
IMTL Member Shares Ltd (owns part-paid shares)
IMUTUAL Worldwide Ltd (owns part-paid shares)
Me (paid up shares)
Is the AGM voting based on 1 vote per Shareholder/member, reason 4 asking is that I am very interested in how many actual members/individual shareholders voted out of "up to" Total members 2689 :)

Re: How much of imutual do you own?

by Bruce » Sun Dec 04 2011 9:52am

myfyr wrote:I own 0.2% then!

Who's the largest * shareholder?

(* by number of shares, obviously)
Based on the annual reports filed in June 2011, the largest three shareholders are as follows:
IMTL Member Shares Ltd (owns part-paid shares)
IMUTUAL Worldwide Ltd (owns part-paid shares)
Me (paid up shares)

Re: How much of imutual do you own?

by myfyr » Sun Dec 04 2011 9:49am

I own 0.2% then!

Who's the largest * shareholder?

(* by number of shares, obviously)

Re: How much of imutual do you own?

by kevinchess1 » Fri Dec 02 2011 1:55pm

No yuor right
The % you qowm must goe down But if you keep earnin then you hav as least many shares as everyone else who does the same
and more than Newbee.
The day may come(Hopefully) when less shares are given out or there's aneed to spend more
That's when they might get a value.

Re: How much of imutual do you own?

by uglysteve » Fri Dec 02 2011 11:39am

richard@imutual wrote: If you agree that we are doing that, then at worst the issuing of more shares has a neutral effect on the value of your existing shareholding. Because the company's value increases in proportion to the shares being issued
Yes this is the key point - and I'd say yes, it is indeed the case.

The aim then is to make sure you're spending wildly to make sure you keep up with the curve :)

Re: How much of imutual do you own?

by richard@imutual » Fri Dec 02 2011 9:34am

Yes, Jim's right that, if you earn at the same rate and the site grows its membership, then your % of the company will gradually decrease. But what's important is the actual value of your shares, not what % of the company you own.

The best way to think about this is, if the shares were actually quoted on a stock exchange, what would be the effect of the site growing on the company's "share price"?

The obvious criticism of the imutual model is that, as we keep issuing more shares, we are diluting existing shareholders. But our policy is to issue shares in a consistent manner and commensurate with the value that a member's actions are adding to the company.

If you agree that we are doing that, then at worst the issuing of more shares has a neutral effect on the value of your existing shareholding. Because the company's value increases in proportion to the shares being issued

BUT I would go further than that. In the world of corporate acquisitions, company's tend to attract a higher 'multiple' if they are 'big' and 'growing' (excuse the simplistic terms, but I think you get my point). Take the 'big' point first:

An investor wants to purchase a cashback website and has a choice between company A (membership of 100,000) and company B (membership of 1,000,000). Assuming both companies generate similar revenue-per-member, you might assume that company B ought to be worth ten times more than company A. Not so - it will be worth much more than ten times the value of company B, all other things remaining equal. That's because the investor knows that the 1m person membership of company B offers much greater opportunities; go to a retailer and say "what can you offer our 1m members?" and you get a much better response than if you say "what can you offer our 100,000 members?". Also, there is always a 'market leader' premium; investors in companies such as ours generally want to buy 'winners' and then consolidate that position, not buy a company in 2nd or 3rd place and take on the difficult task of overtaking an establish leader. Finally, going through the process of an acquisition is costly and time-consuming, and a company needs to be of a certain size to make the whole exercise worthwhile for the buyer.

The bottom line, size IS (almost) everything.

Investors also like to see that a site is growing. Continuing to attract members via the share offer makes imutual more attractive, because it demonstrates its 'potential' to keep increasing in size and value. I trust I don't need to expand on that point any further :?

Note that, in the short term, I consider this to be a hypothetical discussion. I imagine we are many years away from attracting such an offer, but even so, it's important to understand that you benefit from growth of the site, even though it reduces your % shareholding.

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