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Re: Brexit Bounces too
Posted: Tue Jul 30 2019 7:09am
by Boro Boy
pabenny wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30 2019 6:38am
Boro Boy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29 2019 9:42pm
Over 10,000 NE steel workers jobs actually gone while we remained an EU member. Plus all the jobs and businesses that depend on them...
But that's done. Those jobs won't come back as a result of leaving the EU.
Can you give any examples at all of businesses which are investing in the UK and investing in the UK *because* of Brexit?
"But that's done!" That is a rather callous attitude to peoples lives...
As regards investment"because of Brexit" the majority of that with surely only happen after the event.
Re: Brexit Bounces too
Posted: Tue Jul 30 2019 9:02am
by pabenny
Boro Boy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30 2019 7:09am
As regards investment "because of Brexit" the majority of that with surely only happen after the event.
So there isn't any. It's just hope. Or wishful thinking.
As opposed to the tens of thousands who are going to lose their jobs as a result of leaving the EU.
Re: Brexit Bounces too
Posted: Tue Jul 30 2019 9:07am
by Richard Frost
pabenny wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30 2019 9:02am
Boro Boy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30 2019 7:09am
As regards investment "because of Brexit" the majority of that with surely only happen after the event.
So there isn't any. It's just hope. Or wishful thinking.
As opposed to the tens of thousands who are going to lose their jobs as a result of leaving the EU.
As regards the car market it is very hard to say that blame lies with Brexit. There are so many other factors to take into account, general downturn in the market. Future changes to the type of fuel being used etc. It is all not so clear cut.
Re: Brexit Bounces too
Posted: Tue Jul 30 2019 9:38am
by blythburgh
Boro Boy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29 2019 9:42pm
pakefield wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29 2019 8:44pm
1,000 vauxhall jobs on the line now. Plus all the jobs and businesses that depend on them
Over 10,000 NE steel workers jobs actually gone while we remained an EU member. Plus all the jobs and businesses that depend on them...
Oh and don't forget to mention the general
worldwide turndown in petrol/diesel car sales!
They would have gone if we had left the EU soon after the referendum. But I do feel sorry for all involved
Re: Brexit Bounces too
Posted: Tue Jul 30 2019 10:32am
by pabenny
William Joseph1 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30 2019 9:07am
As regards the car market it is very hard to say that blame lies with Brexit. There are so many other factors to take into account, general downturn in the market. Future changes to the type of fuel being used etc. It is all not so clear cut.
So how many automotive jobs are going elsewhere in Europe? I don't know, but I would guess that the UK is being harder hit than other European countries.
Re: Brexit Bounces too
Posted: Tue Jul 30 2019 11:08am
by Boro Boy
pabenny wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30 2019 9:02am
Boro Boy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30 2019 7:09am
As regards investment "because of Brexit" the majority of that with surely only happen after the event.
So there isn't any. It's just hope. Or wishful thinking.
As opposed to the tens of thousands who are going to lose their jobs as a result of leaving the EU.
Did I say that or did I say like most investors they are waiting to invest when things appear cheaper...
Re: Brexit Bounces too
Posted: Tue Jul 30 2019 11:11am
by blythburgh
Boro Boy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30 2019 11:08am
pabenny wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30 2019 9:02am
Boro Boy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30 2019 7:09am
As regards investment "because of Brexit" the majority of that with surely only happen after the event.
So there isn't any. It's just hope. Or wishful thinking.
As opposed to the tens of thousands who are going to lose their jobs as a result of leaving the EU.
Did I say that or did I say like most investors they are waiting to invest when things appear cheaper...
Cheaper? Do not make me laugh. The pound is plummeting and that is bad news for comsumers and manufacturers.
Re: Brexit Bounces too
Posted: Tue Jul 30 2019 11:30am
by pabenny
Boro Boy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30 2019 11:08am
pabenny wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30 2019 9:02am
Boro Boy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30 2019 7:09am
As regards investment "because of Brexit" the majority of that with surely only happen after the event.
So there isn't any. It's just hope. Or wishful thinking.
As opposed to the tens of thousands who are going to lose their jobs as a result of leaving the EU.
Did I say that or did I say like most investors they are waiting to invest when things appear cheaper...
So you're arguing that it requires a further devaluation of GBP to encourage foreign investment in UK industry?
Re: Brexit Bounces too
Posted: Tue Jul 30 2019 1:16pm
by Chadwick
Boro Boy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29 2019 9:42pm
Over 10,000 NE steel workers jobs actually gone while we remained an EU member. Plus all the jobs and businesses that depend on them...
Oh and don't forget to mention the general
worldwide turndown in petrol/diesel car sales!
Don't forget to mention the global downturn in steel prices too. Over production mainly in China put a lot of steel on the market very cheaply. Throw in UK production costs at maybe 20x higher than China - with the best will in the world, no amount of subsidy or improved production is going to bridge that gap. I know the criticism of the EU is that its rules don't allow governments to to subsidise ailing industries, but it would have made no sense to do so - it was a bottomless pit. I think Port Talbot was losing £1m a day.
The other criticism of the EU is that it could have raised tariffs in Chinese steel. But that would have pushed up costs for all the companies buying steel, at a time of financial downturn. It would have just transferred the problem elsewhere.
Ultimately there was no good solution. Global economics won out. The UK was expensive, China was cheap.
Re: Brexit Bounces too
Posted: Tue Jul 30 2019 3:56pm
by BeautifulSunshine
Chadwick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30 2019 1:16pm
Boro Boy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29 2019 9:42pm
Over 10,000 NE steel workers jobs actually gone while we remained an EU member. Plus all the jobs and businesses that depend on them...
Oh and don't forget to mention the general
worldwide turndown in petrol/diesel car sales!
Don't forget to mention the global downturn in steel prices too. Over production mainly in China put a lot of steel on the market very cheaply. Throw in UK production costs at maybe 20x higher than China - with the best will in the world, no amount of subsidy or improved production is going to bridge that gap. I know the criticism of the EU is that its rules don't allow governments to to subsidise ailing industries, but it would have made no sense to do so - it was a bottomless pit. I think Port Talbot was losing £1m a day.
The other criticism of the EU is that it could have raised tariffs in Chinese steel. But that would have pushed up costs for all the companies buying steel, at a time of financial downturn. It would have just transferred the problem elsewhere.
Ultimately there was no good solution. Global economics won out. The UK was expensive, China was cheap.
You have hit the nail on the head.