Brexit

Topical debate, moral dilemmas and quirky questions. Join fellow shareholders in civilised discussions of issues of interest
blythburgh
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Re: Brexit

Post by blythburgh » Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:00 am

My anger at what the puppet Prime Minister has done regarding the EU letter is beyond anger. It is time he got rid of Cummings and remember he is not a dictator but the Prime Minister of a Parliamentary democracy. Parliament made it's wishes known and he has gone against those wishes. Bring on a General Election so we can rid ourselves of the adulterous buffoon and his puppet master

Stephen Fry says it so well: Weep for Britain. A sick, cynical, brutal and horribly dangerous coup d'etat. Children playing with matches, but spitefully not accidentally: gleefully torching an ancient democracy and any tattered shreds shreds of reputation r standing our poor country had left.
Keep smiling because the light at the end of someone's tunnel may be you, Ron Cheneler

expressman33
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Re: Brexit

Post by expressman33 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:54 am

blythburgh wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:00 am
Parliament made it's wishes known and he has gone against those wishes.
The country made their wishes known and Parliament has gone against those wishes
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Richard Frost
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Re: Brexit

Post by Richard Frost » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:03 am

expressman33 wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:54 am
blythburgh wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:00 am
Parliament made it's wishes known and he has gone against those wishes.
The country made their wishes known and Parliament has gone against those wishes
Both of you are wrong. Boris wrote the letter as the law required.

Boris was made to write a letter asking for an extension, that's all. No one has done anything against anyone's wishes. It is still entirely possible that the UK can leave the EU on Halloween. It is hype like this that causes all the bad feeling and angst.
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blythburgh
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Re: Brexit

Post by blythburgh » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:31 am

William Joseph1 wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:03 am
expressman33 wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:54 am
blythburgh wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:00 am
Parliament made it's wishes known and he has gone against those wishes.
The country made their wishes known and Parliament has gone against those wishes
Both of you are wrong. Boris wrote the letter as the law required.

Boris was made to write a letter asking for an extension, that's all. No one has done anything against anyone's wishes. It is still entirely possible that the UK can leave the EU on Halloween. It is hype like this that causes all the bad feeling and angst.
Johnson did the absolute minimum he had to do and then negated it knowing that what he was doing was against the will of Parliament. He might have followed the law to the letter but he certainly did not follow the spirit of the law. And I am sure the about 1 million people who took to the streets of London plus those like me who would have loved to have been able to join them would agree with me.
Keep smiling because the light at the end of someone's tunnel may be you, Ron Cheneler

Richard Frost
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Re: Brexit

Post by Richard Frost » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:53 am

Like it or not, he did what was right. Too many people dipping their oars in and trying to frustrate everybody. All of them want their heads knocking together. The most important thing for this country is to be able to move on and its peoples to get on with their lives.
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Chadwick
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Re: Brexit

Post by Chadwick » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:57 am

History will look back on this period and wonder how we got to the stage where the Prime Minister openly flouted the spirit of the law, and the decisions of parliament, just to push his own agenda and force Britain into the most ruinous foreign and domestic policy decision since the war.

We will eventually rejoin the EU, without the benefits and special status we enjoy at present. We may have to change to the Euro. And our children will wonder how we allowed ourselves to destroy our country's international status and domestic well-being and basically what the fuck were you thinking?!

I'm going to invoke Godwin's law here. Looking back at 1930s Germany, we wonder how it was possible for Hitler to convince the population that it was right to commit genocide and go to war with their neighbours. We might not be going to that extreme, but look around you now: this is how a country sleepwalks into a situation that benefits no one. We allow just one person to ignore all the warnings and attempts to block them, and to plough on with their agenda. Until it affects us directly, we thinks it's OK. And when it does affect us directly, it's too late.
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Sarah
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Re: Brexit

Post by Sarah » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:20 am

Yeah, I agree, it's an unfortunate side effect of Godwin's law that it prevents parallels being remarked upon even when they are valid. Meanwhile, the absence of Johnson's signature on the letter is pretty irrelevant legally and mostly a stunt playing to his easily impressed fan base by diverting the press away from the fact he's requested an extension, breaking yet another promise. He can't legally contradict the request; the courts will swiftly rule to that effect if they need to.
Last edited by Sarah on Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Chadwick
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Re: Brexit

Post by Chadwick » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:21 am

William Joseph1 wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:53 am
Like it or not, he did what was right. Too many people dipping their oars in and trying to frustrate everybody. All of them want their heads knocking together. The most important thing for this country is to be able to move on and its peoples to get on with their lives.
No, he did not do what is right. He found a way to get around the law and circumvent the wishes of parliament. It may not be illegal, but it is not right. Parliament told him to request more time so that we do not rush into a choice we regret.

The people dipping their oars in are the MPs we elect to represent us. Without them we do not have a democracy.

The best way to deal with this is to stop setting arbitrary hard deadlines. We have proven that the two-year deadline in the EU rules isn't sufficient (at least for the UK). In fact, it turns out a three and half year deadline isn't sufficient. We should revoke Article 50, and then continue the discussion about what we want, what the problems are and how we can resolve them. Then, we will be in a position to hand in our notice again and negotiate properly. Maybe we won't even need a second referendum to ratify it.

Our choice at the moment is:
  • Stop and think about it.
  • Fuck it up with no deal (everyone agrees this is the worst option)
  • Accept Theresa May's deal
  • Give it up as a bad idea (OK, not really an option, but still my preferred choice)
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Sarah
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Re: Brexit

Post by Sarah » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:29 pm

Image
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pabenny
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Re: Brexit

Post by pabenny » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:45 pm

And where are Her Majesty's opposition?

We have a government that is in office but not in power. There is no reason to believe that a general election would result in a parliament that would pass the withdrawal bill (and in any case, you might be pro-Brexit, but would you really want Farage in government?)

Surely the only way to resolve this is a new referendum. It may not be what the Leavers want, but can they suggest an achievable alternative?
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