Brexit

Topical debate, moral dilemmas and quirky questions. Join fellow shareholders in civilised discussions of issues of interest
blythburgh
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Re: Brexit

Post by blythburgh » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:48 am

I agree a discussion of what sort of Brexit those who wish to leave the EU would like. But that should have happened before the first referendum, I fear it is too late now.
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expressman33
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Re: Brexit

Post by expressman33 » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:59 am

blythburgh wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:48 am
I agree a discussion of what sort of Brexit those who wish to leave the EU would like. But that should have happened before the first referendum, I fear it is too late now.
It's not just what kind of Brexit we would like , it's what the EU will agree to.
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Chadwick
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Re: Brexit

Post by Chadwick » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:12 am

expressman33 wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:59 am
blythburgh wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:48 am
I agree a discussion of what sort of Brexit those who wish to leave the EU would like. But that should have happened before the first referendum, I fear it is too late now.
It's not just what kind of Brexit we would like , it's what the EU will agree to.
True. But until we know what we want, it's very difficult to ask the EU to agree to it. I feel that we entered the negotiations in the spirit of getting as much as we could, but without really knowing what was valuable to us. Consequently we've ended up with a fudge (May's Deal) that gets us out, but doesn't necessarily put us in pole position for what we need in the future.
In comparison, Boris' no deal exit puts us at the back of the grid, which is why it is not acceptable.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. We should never have triggered article 50 without knowing what we wanted to do. 'Leave' was not enough instruction on its own.
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Constantine
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Re: Brexit

Post by Constantine » Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:37 pm

The deal that May agreed to, or indeed any other deal. was merely a temporary agreement that lasted two years until the actual future EU-UK trading relationship was sorted out.

The issue with the May deal was the so-called backstop; i.e. what would happen to the Irish border if no agreement was reached. Parliament rejected that deal because of the backstop.

If the UK is to leave the EU in any meaningful way you cannot avoid having some kind of hard border. That is difficult to reconcile with the Good Friday Agreement. The timing of the Article 50 notification would not have changed that.
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AAAlphaThunder
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Re: Brexit

Post by AAAlphaThunder » Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:54 pm

The Irish are taking sides with the EU.
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Chadwick
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Re: Brexit

Post by Chadwick » Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:23 pm

AAAlphaThunder wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:54 pm
The Irish are taking sides with the EU.
No. Ireland is in the EU. They're 'taking sides' with themselves.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Chadwick » Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:25 pm

Constantine wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:37 pm
If the UK is to leave the EU in any meaningful way you cannot avoid having some kind of hard border. That is difficult to reconcile with the Good Friday Agreement. The timing of the Article 50 notification would not have changed that.
True. But until we triggered Article 50 we had all the time we wanted to work out a solution. The moment we did Article 50 the clock started ticking. It's run down now and we don't know how many times we can wind it back. We foolishly gave ourselves a deadline for a problem we did not understand.
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Constantine
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Re: Brexit

Post by Constantine » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:02 pm

The Irish border question became an issue during the negotiations with the EU. Triggering Article 50 was necessary to start negotiations. The EU does not deal in hypotheticals.

My view remains that if, the UK is to leave the EU in any meaningful way you cannot avoid having some kind of hard border, and that is difficult to reconcile with the Good Friday Agreement.

The EU's solution is the 'backstop', i.e. failing all else there will be a GB/NI hard border. Parliament has rejected that solution. What's your solution?
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expressman33
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Re: Brexit

Post by expressman33 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:28 pm

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pabenny
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Re: Brexit

Post by pabenny » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:30 pm

Referendum in NI and Eire on a united Ireland. Makes the whole problem go away - along with a whole load of pesky remain voters in NI.
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