Discraceful way Armed forces personnel were treated

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blythburgh
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Discraceful way Armed forces personnel were treated

Post by blythburgh » Wed Jan 19 2022 10:29am

I heard on the radio the story of a ex soldier. He was suspected of being in a gay relationship. He was questioned and in the end admitted it. Result: he was kicked out of the Army and lost his Army pension. And he had a criminal record for indecent behaviour and was on the sex offenders list. Needless to say that means he could not adopt or foster and was unable to get many jobs.

What he did was against the Army rules at the time but perfectly legal for every man not in the Armed Forces.

I hope the Govt. re-instates the pensions and gives compensation to all these men.
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Re: Discraceful way Armed forces personnel were treated

Post by macliam » Wed Jan 19 2022 11:29am

I would agree, but I fear there are those who will jump on the bandwagon. I am wary of attempts to see yesterday through today's glasses.

Those who joined the forces at that time knew the rules..... so it's a bit like anyone who was injured suing the army because they didn't realise they might get hurt. Whilst being gay may have been legal, it was not socially acceptable and left those concerned open to blackmail or coercion (although much of this was due to the penalties for being caught).

I recall a program on recruits to the Irish army on RTE years ago. A recruit was being slung out because he failed to keep his locker tidy. He queried the decision, saying it had nothing to do with his desire to join the army - but the officer replied "If we can't trust you to do the little things, how the hell can we trust you when we need to rely on you?"
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Re: Discraceful way Armed forces personnel were treated

Post by Richard Frost » Wed Jan 19 2022 12:53pm

Being a gay man I am in two minds about this. However I am inclined to be in agreement with macliam. We all have choices in life. If we join something like the armed forces then there are rules to follow and you accept those when you join. A little more difficult for those who "come out" in later life but the rules are there and again they were known before you join.

As for the blackmail angle I have always been of the opinion that whilst blackmail can never be right, people put themselves into a position where they are able to be blackmailed. If you follow the rules blackmail is unlikely.
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Re: Discraceful way Armed forces personnel were treated

Post by macliam » Wed Jan 19 2022 3:57pm

I'm pleased that RF sees things as I do...... I don't "approve" of negative discrimination and I know that the situation, both in the civilian and the military worlds, caused much heartbreak and suffering. However, I also think there may be other facts that impact any particular case. It may be that those disciplined had been "outed" by others for some reason, it may be that they did little to help themselves, it may be that he ignored warnings, it may be that those in command wanted to make an example......... we just don't know. These are the things that an open and honest examination of each case can bring to light.... but to immediately jump to the conclusion that all are entitlled to compensation, etc., is going too far.

I'm not altogether happy with the "rules is rules" argument, but we can't go forwards by looking over our shoulder. The rules at the time were what they were...... and those who broke them knew what they risked. Injustices abound, but whilst most people move beyond them, some are defined by them - and we shouldn't encourage that.
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Re: Discraceful way Armed forces personnel were treated

Post by blythburgh » Thu Jan 20 2022 9:30am

What I find shocking is the criminal record these men got. The man on the radio and no doubt others had to give a DNA sample although he later managed to get that removed from police records. I can understand that they joined the armed forces when being gay was illegal though as another man stated he was 17 and still unsure about his sexuality.
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