Changes to the NIP

[Chadwick]

Any different to other politicians?

Yes because they take the squabbling children to a new level. And they can feed those who think violence is the only answer

Well answers on a postcard please.... because they're all that there is - and attempting to take their toys away hasn't exactly improved things in the past. [...] Of course, a gain for one side is a loss for the other and it must be galling for the unionists no longer to be able to use the powers of state to suppress dissent.... but that's where we are - and it cost a lot of blood and sorrow to get here.

It's all very well taking the superior "bunch of children attitude", but they were educated into that position by a situation imposed from Westminster and maintained by Whitehall subsidies.... and a generation is too short a time for the sins of 100 years to be forgotten. A Union that is desperate to hold itself together in the face of Brexit is not likely to appreciate an Assembly looking for a future outside the UK.... but what's the alternative? Supporting the DUP has achieved nothing......

Quite agree. I regret that I have no solution. But sometimes it feels like they need a few heads banging together.
I once had to explain to some foreign school kids what the Irish thing was all about. A bit of reading gave me a superficial background and I got the impression that there were some very serious wrongs done in the past which resulted in further serious wrongs and a whole lot of petty wrongs until there really was no way to backtrack and work out who owes who what. But some parties are so entrenched in their views that they are not helping move towards a win/win (or at least a no-lose/no-lose) solution and still think the only way forward is a win/lose. Whilst that continues, it's hard to imagine a peaceful resolution. I certainly don't have the answers.

The "bunch of children attitude" is not superior, it is hopeless. It's not a solution, but sometimes it feels like that's all there is. I suspect even divine intervention would only serve to stir up antagonism.

[macliam]

But it's not up to you to solve anything, or to bash heads.... that's been tried many times already - and not for the benefit of people in Ireland. It's not up to you, or to anyone here, to provide answers, but it would be really, really useful if Westminster would let the people involved sort it out without interfering....

But then, that's never been their style.

[macliam]

It looks as if the Tories might be trying to help their mates, the unionists.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-61391869
Odd that only the unionists seem to want changes - and the non-sectarian Alliance are dead against them.

But the, as it says in the article "A source close to the foreign secretary insisted that her "absolute priority" was protecting peace in Northern Ireland.", except, of course, that being Truss, she probably wants to protect PEAS ..... and not green ones!

[bprev]

NIP
A non political observation, I used to buy plants from GB, Roses, fruit bushes, bedding plants I can no longer do so because of EU diktat, EU plant and animal health rules are rubbish,apart from NZ flatworm, all other plant and animal diseases came from Europe, including bird flu ,cannot blame EU for bird flu.
The paperwork and examination demanded by EU HAS put up prices in NI and reduced choice, so as far as I am concerned ,EU border should be in EU countries, not in Northern Ireland. DUP were too smug, let Teresa May and Boris the Liar do their own thing, and got their comeuppance, Alliance party , like that comedian, nice but dim, no grip on reality, Alliance gains were indirect help to SinnFein/IRA

[macliam]

Your last phrase belies your claimed "non-political" observation, however I have no doubt that the fudge which is the NIP has caused increased bureaucracy, just as the superbly designed new customs arrangements have impacted trade outside the UK and kyboshed the Scottish live shellfish industry.

However, all this is a result of the decision to exit the EU, which was not supported by the majority in NI, plus the rejection of May's plan for Brexit and the inability (or unwillingness) of the UK government to suggest any other proposal to prevent a hard border in Ireland - culminating in their agreement to the NIP.... after negotiations by the same "experts" who are now saying how bad it is. Your suggestion that an EU border should be in EU countries is a nice way to avoid the issue that it is the UK who has created the need for them, not the EU..... so it is the UK that has the responsibility for action - and that the imposition of a hard border on the island of Ireland will go against the provisions of the GFA.

However, whilst I accept your view that the NIP has caused issues in certain areas, it is obvious from the trade figures comparing NI to RoUK, that the "special position" of NI has worked in its favour overall. But instead of looking at the proposals already suggested by the EU, or looking to address particular points to make the NIP better focused and less intrusive, the British Government - and particularly the DUP - has chosen to return to the willy-waving competition to prove that they are cleverer than the EU and can actually still pick the cherries they wanted - and wrapped all this up in the Union Jack to attract support from unionists. The DUP has already paid the price for that error and the Tories and the UK in general are in danger of doing the same if they continue suggesting that they will break international law.

[bprev]

NIP
M&S withdrew 600 or more lines from NI stores, as soon as NIP came into force.
There may be some minor protocol plus for fishermen and some agricultural manufacturers but no for us ordinary people, it has screwed us.
And as for politicians, can they be withdrawn,rescinded, reducued but NOT RECYCLED

[macliam]

The decision by M&S was a commercial one, given the restrictions imposed by the NIP - however, some time ago the EU proposed changes to the NIP to overcome issues..... proposals that have never even been discussed by the British Government. This is not to say that ALL restrictions could be overcome, because the NIP was agreed in order to avoid the need for a land border, but with an adult conversation, the impact could be reduced to a minimum. The DUP has decided to make the whole idea of the NIP a question of ideology, as was their approval of Brexit before - both without any suggestion of what should be done to replace them - and the British Government reverted to sabre-rattling in an attempt to squeeze the impossible out of the EU. So you are suffering the impact of unreasonable expectations, the inability to recognize reality and a refusal to negotiate honestly. It is a mess, but it's a mess that could be seen a mile off.

After the GFA, NI ceased to be like any other part of the UK and geographically it is not like any other part of the UK as it has a land border. The problem is that, like the NIP, some people were willing to sign up to it to get what they wanted, but without any commitment to actually abide by it (if they even bothered to consider that anyway). So, along with the status of Gibraltar and many, many other "details", the impact of Brexit on the province was not even considered. So, as a signatory of the agreement, the onus of finding a resolution to problems for the GFA from the proposed exit fell on the British Government and their DUP allies. They failed to address this - and this meant no Brexit agreement, so enter the NIP. Now that Brexit has been established, it seems the belief is that this annoying detail of the NIP can be forgotten... and that the EU will just accept that and impose no sanctions. Wrong.

So the situation is now that there is no call to dump the NIP from NI trade in general, the idea is not supported by largest party, or, overall, by the electors of NI and there is still absolutely no suggestion of what would replace it to offset Brexit issues with the GFA. Unfortunately, as with the GFA, on this issue the genie will not go back into the bottle and there is no magic wand that will just make it go away - yet there still appears to be a sector who refuse to accept this. With all the goodwill in the world, burying their heads in the sand will simply not work.......

[bprev]

Brexit: M&S foods have 'reduced shelf life' due to NI protocol
By John Campbell
BBC News NI Economics & Business Editor

Published5 hours ago

Share
Marks and Spencer
IMAGE SOURCE,PA
Marks & Spencer says it has seen a reduction in the shelf life of its products in Northern Ireland because of the time it takes to comply with the requirements of the Northern Ireland Protocol.

The retailer warned that it would face further time delays if the protocol was fully implemented.

Currently supermarkets are trading under a grace period.

It means they do not face a full range of checks and controls.

Sacha Berendji, the retailer's managing director for Ireland and Northern Ireland, was speaking to a House of Lords Committee.

The protocol is a special Brexit deal for Northern Ireland designed to prevent the return of a hard land border with the Republic of Ireland.

It works by keeping Northern Ireland inside the EU's single market for goods.

£30m spent on Brexit

[bprev]

Hard Border between NI and Eire? So what! An opportunity which will be seen as a challenge to circumvent in order to to make money, everybody hates the revenue man. An open border has nothing to do with peace or war here, no need to queue for Customs and excise either side of land border, just drive a few miles and there will be dozens of roads to cross with no chance meeting of Revenue men of either jurisdiction.
I noticed Eire registered coaches back at Sainsburys of a Sunday and trolley loads of booze and cooking oil going through checkouts, Free trade, all for it.

[macliam]

If you truly believe what you have written then I fear you are due for a rough time - and I wouldn't look to the UK government to help you. The GFA is an International Treaty and the NIP is part of an International Treaty. You can try to ignore the changing tide, but as Cnut found, you can't stop them.

Better to start negotiating in good faith than to think things will ever return to the way they were.....