So what did you vote for?

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pabenny
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Re: So what did you vote for?

Post by pabenny » Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:33 pm

wikipedia wrote:Subsidiarity... [means] the EU may only act (i.e. make laws) where action of individual countries is insufficient. It was established in EU law by the Treaty of Maastricht, which was signed on 7 February 1992 -
The most commonplace examples of the EU acting where individual countries can't is establishing common minimum standards for product performance, safety and quality. These both facilitate cross-border trade and prevent countries undercutting by having lower standards.

Boro Boy wrote:...the power does not live with the democratically elected MEP's ...as the power is at the top and with other unelected officials.
As in the UK parliament, a majority of representatives can overrule a minority who disagree. You seem to be suggesting that the unelected officials push through regulation against the wishes of the democratically elected MEPs. Can you provide any examples of this?
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Re: So what did you vote for?

Post by Boro Boy » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:36 pm

pabenny wrote:
wikipedia wrote:Subsidiarity... [means] the EU may only act (i.e. make laws) where action of individual countries is insufficient. It was established in EU law by the Treaty of Maastricht, which was signed on 7 February 1992 -
The most commonplace examples of the EU acting where individual countries can't is establishing common minimum standards for product performance, safety and quality. These both facilitate cross-border trade and prevent countries undercutting by having lower standards.

Boro Boy wrote:...the power does not live with the democratically elected MEP's ...as the power is at the top and with other unelected officials.
As in the UK parliament, a majority of representatives can overrule a minority who disagree. You seem to be suggesting that the unelected officials push through regulation against the wishes of the democratically elected MEPs. Can you provide any examples of this?
This may help clarify:
Wikipedia wrote: Although the European Parliament has legislative power that the Council and Commission do not possess, it does not formally possess legislative initiative, as most national parliaments of European Union member states do.
MEP's do not introduce legislation in the way that MP's can in the UK Parliament; indeed it is a vast mistake thinking of the EU Parliament in the same terms as in the UK. MEP's do not introduce legislation they Tinker with legislation presented to them (until they get it right!) by Euro Civil Servants and of course 300 Tinkerers will always get their way over 200 Tinkerers...

I hope that helps...!
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Re: So what did you vote for?

Post by Chadwick » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:04 pm

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Re: So what did you vote for?

Post by Chadwick » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:09 pm

Boro Boy wrote: it is a vast mistake thinking of the EU Parliament in the same terms as in the UK.
Don't then.

It sounds like you're getting confused by the similar names and assuming they should be the same. I can understand your disappointment and confusion when you find out they're not.

But don't let one vast mistake lead to you making another.
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Re: So what did you vote for?

Post by Boro Boy » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:17 pm

Chadwick wrote:
Boro Boy wrote: it is a vast mistake thinking of the EU Parliament in the same terms as in the UK.
Don't then.

It sounds like you're getting confused by the similar names and assuming they should be the same. I can understand your disappointment and confusion when you find out they're not.

But don't let one vast mistake lead to you making another.

Believe me I don't think of them as both the same. Why would any Democratic Briton want to sell away their sovereignty and democracy to a ever increasing powerful EU Body in which you have no real control over? :wtf: :silent: :think:

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Re: So what did you vote for?

Post by pabenny » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:21 pm

Boro Boy wrote:MEP's do not introduce legislation in the way that MP's can in the UK Parliament; indeed it is a vast mistake thinking of the EU Parliament in the same terms as in the UK.
True. Legislative processes differ from country to country. In the EU, the European Commission (ie the unelected officials) introduces legislation at the behest of the Council or upon the suggestion of Parliament. It doesn't mean that these unelected officials are forcing through their will on the people of Europe and against the will of MEPs.

Unless, as asked before, you can give any examples of unelected officials pushing through legislation against the wishes of the elected representatives?
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Re: So what did you vote for?

Post by pabenny » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:25 pm

Boro Boy wrote:Why would any Democratic Briton want to sell away their sovereignty and democracy to a ever increasing powerful EU Body in which you have no real control over?
Because the benefits of uniting with our neighbours are worth having
Because we're better off as part of larger grouping than standing alone
Because we have more influence on the inside than on the outside
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Re: So what did you vote for?

Post by Chadwick » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:46 pm

pabenny wrote:In the EU, the European Commission (ie the unelected officials) introduces legislation at the behest of the Council or upon the suggestion of Parliament. It doesn't mean that these unelected officials are forcing through their will on the people of Europe and against the will of MEPs.
It's true; the Commission is unelected.
Each member state appoints its own representative. In the UK, the UK government (who you vote for) does it.
In 2016, David Cameron (Prime Minister at the time) nominated Julian King. His appointment was approved by the European Parliament (who you vote for) and the Council of the European Union (government ministers from each country - not voted for by you, but appointed by the PM who you indirectly did vote for)

You can read about Julian Hill here: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/commiss ... 19/king_en

(The exception to the above is the President of the European Commission (currently Jean-Claude Juncker). This role is nominated by votes in the Council and then the Parliament must vote to approve it.)
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Re: So what did you vote for?

Post by macliam » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:34 pm

Chadwick wrote:
pabenny wrote:In the EU, the European Commission (ie the unelected officials) introduces legislation at the behest of the Council or upon the suggestion of Parliament. It doesn't mean that these unelected officials are forcing through their will on the people of Europe and against the will of MEPs.
It's true; the Commission is unelected.
Each member state appoints its own representative. In the UK, the UK government (who you vote for) does it.
In 2016, David Cameron (Prime Minister at the time) nominated Julian King. His appointment was approved by the European Parliament (who you vote for) and the Council of the European Union (government ministers from each country - not voted for by you, but appointed by the PM who you indirectly did vote for)

You can read about Julian Hill here: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/commiss ... 19/king_en

(The exception to the above is the President of the European Commission (currently Jean-Claude Juncker). This role is nominated by votes in the Council and then the Parliament must vote to approve it.)
Yes, but what did the Romans ever do for US?
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Re: So what did you vote for?

Post by Boro Boy » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:22 pm

pabenny wrote:
Boro Boy wrote:Why would any Democratic Briton want to sell away their sovereignty and democracy to a ever increasing powerful EU Body in which you have no real control over?
Because the benefits of uniting with our neighbours are worth having
Because we're better off as part of larger grouping than standing alone
Because we have more influence on the inside than on the outside


Funny how easily people forget that people died for democracy; so hard to achieve but so easy to give away... :wave:

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