Electricity and Gas prices

Money, investing, mutuals etc
expressman33
Posts: 11825
Joined: Tue Jun 29 2010 10:36pm
Location: stockport
Has thanked: 2939 times
Been thanked: 10503 times
Contact:

Electricity and Gas prices

Post by expressman33 » Thu Apr 28 2022 4:24pm

I've noticed that for Eon the Electricity prices vary from region to region . London the daily standing charge seems to be a lot lower than other regions 32.141p per day compared to over 50p per day in some regions. https://assets.ctfassets.net/gmgnreshss ... t_Flat.pdf
Thanked by: blythburgh

Sarah
Posts: 4309
Joined: Sat Jun 26 2010 10:01am
Has thanked: 328 times
Been thanked: 3329 times
Contact:

Re: Electricity and Gas prices

Post by Sarah » Thu Apr 28 2022 4:30pm

The standing charge has always varied depending on where you live, due to different costs to supply homes with power in rural or more remote areas.
Analysts told the BBC that local suppliers are moving charges which were once part of a consumer's unit price for energy (which now has a tight upper limit on it) over to their standing charge. They are also increasing standing charges to the maximum level for each region, which means a big jump for some places.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60878314
Thanked by: blythburgh

macliam
Posts: 10177
Joined: Thu Jul 18 2013 12:26pm
Location: By the Deben, Suffolk
Has thanked: 1546 times
Been thanked: 8403 times
Contact:

Re: Electricity and Gas prices

Post by macliam » Thu Apr 28 2022 4:57pm

Sarah wrote:
Thu Apr 28 2022 4:30pm
........They are also increasing standing charges to the maximum level for each region, which means a big jump for some places.
Yes, I noticed :(
Thanked by: blythburgh
Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get me

pabenny
Posts: 2326
Joined: Tue Jun 29 2010 5:21pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 1841 times
Contact:

Re: Electricity and Gas prices

Post by pabenny » Fri Apr 29 2022 8:33am

Standing charges have always varied from region to region. It's a legacy from pre-privatisation days. It partly reflects the differing infrastructure - eg London where most cables are underground and distances short compared with rural Wales where cables are above ground and there might be a handful of properties at the end of a long cable.

The big jump in maximum standing charges is to cover some of the costs of failed suppliers.
Thanked by: blythburgh

macliam
Posts: 10177
Joined: Thu Jul 18 2013 12:26pm
Location: By the Deben, Suffolk
Has thanked: 1546 times
Been thanked: 8403 times
Contact:

Re: Electricity and Gas prices

Post by macliam » Sat Apr 30 2022 11:36am

pabenny wrote:
Fri Apr 29 2022 8:33am
Standing charges have always varied from region to region. It's a legacy from pre-privatisation days. It partly reflects the differing infrastructure - eg London where most cables are underground and distances short compared with rural Wales where cables are above ground and there might be a handful of properties at the end of a long cable.

The big jump in maximum standing charges is to cover some of the costs of failed suppliers.
This has been said before..... so it really does bring into question the entire concept of national control over energy prices.

The transmission of electricity (and gas) is not undertaken by the companies that sell us our energy but by national providers.....so to continue to charge someone in one part of England a different price to those in another is like trying to justify charging more for a loaf of bread in Dover than in Blackpool - or charging me slightly more for my electricity than my neighbour because I am a few metres further from the source than he is. Distribution on a national scale is cost divided by subscriber for everything but energy, it appears.

Of course, the real answer is in the last sentence, the leeway to charge differential prices enables vendors to squeeze more from the consumer in a non-transparent way, in order to cover costs that might otherwise be questioned.....
Thanked by: blythburgh
Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get me

pabenny
Posts: 2326
Joined: Tue Jun 29 2010 5:21pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 1841 times
Contact:

Re: Electricity and Gas prices

Post by pabenny » Sat Apr 30 2022 2:49pm

macliam wrote:
Sat Apr 30 2022 11:36am
The transmission of electricity (and gas) is not undertaken by the companies that sell us our energy but by national providers
Not quite correct. There always has been a national electricity grid company for bulk distribution and transmission. But there have always* been separate network operators in each region (12 across GB). These are the former regional electricity boards - you may remember names such as SWEB and Seeboard. Even then pricing was different across the country, reflecting the different cost bases.

----------
* always - ie from when electricity was nationalised after WW2
Thanked by: blythburgh

macliam
Posts: 10177
Joined: Thu Jul 18 2013 12:26pm
Location: By the Deben, Suffolk
Has thanked: 1546 times
Been thanked: 8403 times
Contact:

Re: Electricity and Gas prices

Post by macliam » Sat Apr 30 2022 4:43pm

pabenny wrote:
Sat Apr 30 2022 2:49pm
macliam wrote:
Sat Apr 30 2022 11:36am
The transmission of electricity (and gas) is not undertaken by the companies that sell us our energy but by national providers
Not quite correct. There always has been a national electricity grid company for bulk distribution and transmission. But there have always* been separate network operators in each region (12 across GB). These are the former regional electricity boards - you may remember names such as SWEB and Seeboard. Even then pricing was different across the country, reflecting the different cost bases.

----------
* always - ie from when electricity was nationalised after WW2
But there are now no local "network operators" - just energy retailers. All provision is from the grid companies, so the resellers just buy and sell from the providers, repackaging the basic product. That is why the likes of E-On and EDF can offer electricity across all the old regions - and why former electricity companies also offer gas, and VV.
Thanked by: blythburgh
Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get me

Richard Frost
Posts: 12377
Joined: Tue Jun 29 2010 8:14pm
Location: The Isle of Dreams
Has thanked: 2741 times
Been thanked: 6362 times

Re: Electricity and Gas prices

Post by Richard Frost » Sat Apr 30 2022 5:08pm

macliam wrote:
Sat Apr 30 2022 4:43pm
But there are now no local "network operators" - just energy retailers.
Sorry but that is not the case.

There are three levels

1) National Grid who transmit power around the country

2) In Great Britain there are eight distribution regions operated by six companies: These take the power from National Grid and distribute it to the customers in their respective areas. They will also move your power supply/meter if needed and provide new connections and in some cases upgrade the main fuse in a property.

Scottish and Southern Electricity Networks
Scottish Power Energy Networks
Electricity North West
Northern Powergrid
UK Power Networks
Western Power Distribution

Your region before privatisation was Eastern Electricity now the Eastern division of UK Power Networks.

3) Then you have the supplier ie: EDF, Octopus etc. Who collect the money from the customer and via a levy from OFGEM pay for the previous two tiers. The OFGEM levy amongst other things also collects money dictated by government one example would be, Green levys another the cost of failed suppliers. These things are part of the make up of the standing charge.

The power is bought from the companies generating it and is separate from the above.

This may or may not help https://powercompare.co.uk/dno/
Thanked by: pabenny, blythburgh

macliam
Posts: 10177
Joined: Thu Jul 18 2013 12:26pm
Location: By the Deben, Suffolk
Has thanked: 1546 times
Been thanked: 8403 times
Contact:

Re: Electricity and Gas prices

Post by macliam » Sat Apr 30 2022 5:51pm

Richard Frost wrote:
Sat Apr 30 2022 5:08pm
macliam wrote:
Sat Apr 30 2022 4:43pm
But there are now no local "network operators" - just energy retailers.
Sorry but that is not the case.

There are three levels

1) National Grid who transmit power around the country

2) In Great Britain there are eight distribution regions operated by six companies: These take the power from National Grid and distribute it to the customers in their respective areas. They will also move your power supply/meter if needed and provide new connections and in some cases upgrade the main fuse in a property.

Scottish and Southern Electricity Networks
Scottish Power Energy Networks
Electricity North West
Northern Powergrid
UK Power Networks
Western Power Distribution

Your region before privatisation was Eastern Electricity now the Eastern division of UK Power Networks.

3) Then you have the supplier ie: EDF, Octopus etc. Who collect the money from the customer and via a levy from OFGEM pay for the previous two tiers. The OFGEM levy amongst other things also collects money dictated by government one example would be, Green levys another the cost of failed suppliers. These things are part of the make up of the standing charge.

The power is bought from the companies generating it and is separate from the above.

This may or may not help https://powercompare.co.uk/dno/
OK so the picture is more complicated, but what I was saying is that the energy companies today are not the network operators of yesterday - and you confirm that they are not. The fact that the situation has become more fragmented and unclear as a result of political meddling is just par for the course.

There is still no reason why the cost of provision of the same product to different areas of the UK should be different..... unless you also accept that a car should cost more the farther you are from the factory or a loaf of bread should have it's price depend on your proximity to the bakery.

The fact that this variable "mark up" can also be used to mask other costs just proves the misuse of this lack of transparency.
Thanked by: blythburgh
Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get me

Richard Frost
Posts: 12377
Joined: Tue Jun 29 2010 8:14pm
Location: The Isle of Dreams
Has thanked: 2741 times
Been thanked: 6362 times

Re: Electricity and Gas prices

Post by Richard Frost » Sat Apr 30 2022 6:32pm

macliam wrote:
Sat Apr 30 2022 5:51pm

There is still no reason why the cost of provision of the same product to different areas of the UK should be different..... unless you also accept that a car should cost more the farther you are from the factory or a loaf of bread should have it's price depend on your proximity to the bakery.

The fact that this variable "mark up" can also be used to mask other costs just proves the misuse of this lack of transparency.
I am sorry but I disagree. Each DNO will have its own costs which will vary from area to area. For instance in an area where the network is predominantly overhead, The people who deal with overhead cables will be different from those who deal with underground and that may involve different costs re salaries. Costs will also be higher in an overhead area than where cables are mainly underground. Rents and rates will also have a different effect in each area. Depending on geographical spread cost will be higher to maintain the network. Rural areas will require more effort.

However in some respects you are right, it is a political decision on how the bill is made up and the government could decide to even out the charges across the country. At the moment they choose to charge customers on the basis that more effort/work to get electricity to a customer requires a higher standing charge.

People may disagree with that way of charging and it has become obscured by political decisions on the various levies that have been/are to be added. But it is the system that has been in place since WWW2.

It is going to take a very brave government to overhaul this system. Personally I think it should be overhauled. In much the same way (just to confuse) that Social Services/NHS still needs to be overhauled. The 1.5% levy on NI is not going to do the job.

Do I trust the current bunch of clowns in Westminster to do either job properly. NO, I do not. Having said that, do I trust Labour to do a better job. Well the jury is out on that one still.
Thanked by: pabenny, blythburgh

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest