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Re: It's Christmas!?!

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:51 am
by pabenny
Chadwick wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:44 pm
Christmas starts in Advent.
If we're talking Church calendar, Advent is a season in its own right marking preparation for the (second) coming of Christ.
Christmas runs from Christmas Day to Epiphany (12th night - hence the song 12 Days of Christmas and this being the traditional date for taking down decorations). Epiphany is when tradition has it that the 'wise men' arrived to greet the Christ-child, and marks the revealing of Christ to the world.

Macliam's observations in Portugal probably reflect the greater sway held by Church tradition over the shopping-fest here.

Re: It's Christmas!?!

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:48 pm
by macliam
pabenny wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:51 am
Chadwick wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:44 pm
Christmas starts in Advent.
If we're talking Church calendar, Advent is a season in its own right marking preparation for the (second) coming of Christ.
Christmas runs from Christmas Day to Epiphany (12th night - hence the song 12 Days of Christmas and this being the traditional date for taking down decorations). Epiphany is when tradition has it that the 'wise men' arrived to greet the Christ-child, and marks the revealing of Christ to the world.

Macliam's observations in Portugal probably reflect the greater sway held by Church tradition over the shopping-fest here.
I seriously hope we're not preparing for the second coming!!! I don't fancy being up for judgement yet.... although Trump or Putin as antichrist is a possibility!

When I was in Spain over Christmas (30 years ago...) there was a strict demarcation in the "holiday" season. Christmas was a religious and family celebration, New Year's eve was for adults to party all night and "Reyes" ("Kings", 6th January) was the time for presents (in accordance with the "gifts" of the Kings). I suspect that is still the case, although commercialization may well have eroded the boundaries.

Portugal is "nominally" Catholic in the same way that England is "nominally" CofE. Church attendance is far lower than it was in Ireland and there is a high degree of religious ignorance here in the south (the north is more religious). Much of this is a reaction to the old dictatorship's focus of the 3 "F"s, (Fé, Futbol e Fado - Faith, Football and traditional music), although football doesn't seem to have been affected as much! Some is due to the fact that Catholicism is the established religion and seen as a bit "chato" (annoying). One thing is for sure, I know of nobody who has discussed going to church at christmas, but plenty preparing for the celebrations! The reason for the lack of commercialization is merely that commercialization is not such a "science" here (DG).

Re: It's Christmas!?!

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:08 pm
by Chadwick
macliam wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:48 pm
When I was in Spain over Christmas (30 years ago...) there was a strict demarcation in the "holiday" season. Christmas was a religious and family celebration, New Year's eve was for adults to party all night and "Reyes" ("Kings", 6th January) was the time for presents (in accordance with the "gifts" of the Kings). I suspect that is still the case, although commercialization may well have eroded the boundaries.
I found a similar situation in Austria 20 years ago. Presents were done earlier in December, Christmas Eve was so quiet, and Christmas Day was a family day.

Re: It's Christmas!?!

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:08 pm
by macliam
Chadwick wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:08 pm
macliam wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:48 pm
When I was in Spain over Christmas (30 years ago...) there was a strict demarcation in the "holiday" season. Christmas was a religious and family celebration, New Year's eve was for adults to party all night and "Reyes" ("Kings", 6th January) was the time for presents (in accordance with the "gifts" of the Kings). I suspect that is still the case, although commercialization may well have eroded the boundaries.
I found a similar situation in Austria 20 years ago. Presents were done earlier in December, Christmas Eve was so quiet, and Christmas Day was a family day.
Presumably presents on St.Nicholas's day (December 5th/6th)..... which happens in Holland. It's a northern European thing....
I'm sure Tesco et al would love us to celebrate that, Christmas and "Reyes", plus Thanksgiving too, if they had their way :D

Re: It's Christmas!?!

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:38 am
by Boro Boy
It's December - time to start up that Christmas Cheer!!!!

See: https://www.bing.com/search?q=mariah+ca ... noreward=1

Re: It's Christmas!?!

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:40 am
by William Joseph1
Its Advent still in my calendar. There are plenty of Advent carols around that are nice to listen to. Why do people wish their life away by trying to celebrate Christmas before its time?

https://focusoncampus.org/content/10-ad ... -christmas

Re: It's Christmas!?!

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:28 am
by Boro Boy
William Joseph1 wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:40 am
Its Advent still in my calendar. There are plenty of Advent carols around that are nice to listen to. Why do people wish their life away by trying to celebrate Christmas before its time?

https://focusoncampus.org/content/10-ad ... -christmas
Baa Humbug...! I wouldn't have expected any less... Personally I have Loads of Christmas ceremonies to go to over the coming weeks, couldn't possibly fit them all into one day...!!!

Re: It's Christmas!?!

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:47 am
by macliam
Boro Boy wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:28 am
William Joseph1 wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:40 am
Its Advent still in my calendar. There are plenty of Advent carols around that are nice to listen to. Why do people wish their life away by trying to celebrate Christmas before its time?

https://focusoncampus.org/content/10-ad ... -christmas
Baa Humbug...! I wouldn't have expected any less... Personally I have Loads of Christmas ceremonies to go to over the coming weeks, couldn't possibly fit them all into one day...!!!
No, you may have loads of Christmastime events (ceremonies???), but without being overly religious or pedantic, I agree with WJ that Christmas is a specific date, not a moveable or extendable feast. Christmastime or the Christmas period are far more closely aligned to December 25th than the random appearance of decorations in commercial establishments, designed to encourage increased patronage - why not go the whole hog and just call it the "Holidays" like the septics do?

Re: It's Christmas!?!

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:49 am
by blythburgh
Advent starts tomorrow but I have to send cards (and presents to some) before Christmas so have been getting busy

Re: It's Christmas!?!

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:13 pm
by Boro Boy
macliam wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:47 am
Boro Boy wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:28 am
William Joseph1 wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:40 am
Its Advent still in my calendar. There are plenty of Advent carols around that are nice to listen to. Why do people wish their life away by trying to celebrate Christmas before its time?

https://focusoncampus.org/content/10-ad ... -christmas
Baa Humbug...! I wouldn't have expected any less... Personally I have Loads of Christmas ceremonies to go to over the coming weeks, couldn't possibly fit them all into one day...!!!
No, you may have loads of Christmastime events (ceremonies???), but without being overly religious or pedantic, I agree with WJ that Christmas is a specific date, not a moveable or extendable feast. Christmastime or the Christmas period are far more closely aligned to December 25th than the random appearance of decorations in commercial establishments, designed to encourage increased patronage - why not go the whole hog and just call it the "Holidays" like the septics do?
It would be nice to have the spirit of Christmas all year round but sensibility says its justified to start celebrations from the start of December...!