Coronavirus/COVID-19 part 2

[macliam]

and the smokescreen of Partygate was there to obscure "Patelgate".....

[blythburgh]

Before you complain about the new rules to prevent Covid do not blame Johnson or the Govt. or their advisors.

Blame the anti vax brigade and the anti mask brigade.

Those are the ones with blood on their hands as non vaccinated people are dying of covid. Vaccinated people are in agony or will die from a cancer that they could have survived if the NHS was not dealing with unvaccinated who are taking the hospital beds needed for the unavoidable sick

[pakefield]

In church we have had to wear face masks when singing. Under the new rules we do not need a mask to sing.

Odd when singing was judged to be far more effective in spreading covid than mere speaking

[macliam]

.............Finally, a personal illustration of the idiocy of some commentary. My sister is 12 years older than me, but a healthy 79 year-old double cancer survivor, her daughter is a 45 year-old special needs teacher and her grandaughter is an 8 year-old schoolgirl. Last week, the grandaughter started to cough and feel unwell, so my sister took her temperature, which was above average. When my niece got home, she used one of her lateral flow tests on the grandaughter and very quickly it showed positive. So they got a PCR test done on all of them - neither my sister nor my niece showed any infection, but the grandaughter had Covid!! This isn't a surprise as my niece has been testing herself regularly due to her font-line job and is double vaxed and my sister has already had her booster. But they are all in isolation.

However, the grandaughter has been really unwell and had no appetite because she had no sense of taste or smell...... so giving the lie to the claim that young children either don't get the virus or don't suffer any symptoms from it.......

An extension to this - which will be worrying to many of us (and should be a concern to all!)

I spoke to my sister yesterday. Her Granddaughter is now out of isolation herself..... however, she then informed me that my niece, a triple-vaxed special needs teacher, has Covid! Despite testing herself every 2 days, despite having had both vax and a booster, she tested positive for Covid a full week after her daughter (hence the logic of the 10-day isolation). Despite being triple vaxed, fit and relatively young (45 yo), she has been very unwell... like a severe bout of flu and with 3 days of intense migraines. So, she isn't sick enough for hospital, but definitely not well.

They don't yet know which strain of Covid they have because, for some reason, they didn't sequence the Granddaughter’s PCR results (!!!) and they haven't released my Niece's yet - but the assumption is that it's Omicron, since it infected my Niece despite her being triple-vaxed.....

[Sarah]

It appears the omicron variant is absolute rocket fuel for COVID-19 infections and the UK is now especially vulnerable because of our initial high dependency on the AstraZeneca vaccination. The data currently emerging regarding omicron is not favourable for AZ; also it hasn't been licenced for booster shots, so people should not expect an AZ booster jab, nor wait until one becomes available.

The government are now heavily promoting for as many people as possible to get their booster jabs (which will be Pfizer or Moderna here) although not spelling out clearly that previously being double jabbed with AZ is providing very little protection against the spread of omicron. The majority of us that did receive two dozes of AZ initially could be wise to behave as carefully as the unvaccinated in the short term, until protected by an additional booster of either Pfizer or Moderna. I'm thankfully now booked to receive my booster shot in a few days time, with the changes last week having enabled me to bring it forward by several weeks.

Perhaps also worth mentioning that although official advice regarding the most important symptoms has not changed recently, the ZOE research project are reporting an expanded list:

• Runny nose
• Headache
• Sneezing
• Sore throat
• Persistent cough
• Fever
• Loss of taste and smell

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/what-are ... s-of-covid

The first five symptoms on the list are commonly experienced by people that have been fully vaccinated, whilst fever and anosmia might be absent. A member of my family has just tested positive on a PCR test, with symptoms that closely match this finding, despite multiple previous negative lateral flow tests.

[macliam]

Sarah, I'm very, very cautious in assigning "blame" to a particular vaccine - your post sounds like you are suggesting that AZ was never a good choice, which is simply not true. What has happened is that the UK rolled out vaccines early, leaving people vulnerable to decreasing immunity and the omicron variant has heavily mutated. This, added to concerns about side-effects from AZ (because it is an active vaccine) has led to the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines becoming the go-to choice. However, my niece was given Pfizer as her primary vaccination and has since had a booster, yet she now been infected by the virus. There is wide ignorance of the actual effectiveness of vaccines and/or the level of immunity offered and the protection given. The truth is that NO vaccine is 100% effective and ALL vaccines will provide varying levels of immunity against known variants - but can't be guaranteed for future variants. There is also a difference between protection against contracting the illness and limiting the severity of the illness if contracted.

Secondly, I'm concerned with your comment about the lateral flow (LFD) tests vis-à-vis PCR tests. Again, it sounds as if you are suggesting that LFD tests are less reliable than PCR tests - and that is simply untrue. At base, lateral flow tests are as reliable as PCR tests at detecting existing Covid infection. The "advantage" of PCR testing is the possibility of sequencing the result to identify the particular characteristics of the virus detected. The "downside" of PCR testing is that this depends on laboratory analysis, even when the result proves negative, and that the actual amount of sequencing carried out has been pathetically low (my great-niece's case being an obvious example - not sequenced despite the fact that she exhibited symptoms and was the daughter of a key-worker...). Both LFD and PCR tests are open to false-positive and false-negative results, but they are largely equal in this vulnerability - so if your relative tested negative on LFD and then positive on PCR, then it is more likely that the detectable virus only passed the threshold on the last test than that the LFD tests "missed it".

Whilst there are many issues arising from the Covid pandemic, there is no doubt that testing and vaccination are the only way in which we are going to learn to live with the virus when the pandemic becomes endemic - therefore we need to take a balanced approach and not reach for a silver bullet that is not there. Therefore I am extremely nervous when doubts are cast on either of those pillars - because it encourages those who are already sceptical about the pandemic and those idiots who seek to find "alternative" truths.

[Sarah]

The intention of my post was more an attempt to raise awareness of information that I've been seeing this week and the need for everyone to be cautious. Nevertheless, some differences in effectiveness of the vaccines have been known for quite some time now. The data for Pfizer was already looking better at the point that I had both my initial vaccinations, something I was aware of at the time, to the extent that I would have opted for it in preference if given a choice. However, like many others I was given no choice and glad to receive AstraZeneca in the circumstances. I remained hopeful that a later booster (already starting to be discussed back then) would be the Pfizer vaccine.

It has always been my understanding that lateral flow tests are regarded as less accurate than PCR tests and this being a reason that confirmatory PCR tests are recommended when recognised symptoms are experienced, as well as lateral flow results sometimes not being accepted when proof of a negative test has been formally required. You're actually the first person I've seen expressing a contrary view, so I'll have to reassess and update my understanding if they are as accurate as you say. I can confirm that my family member did conduct an additional lateral flow test (with negative result) at the same time as the PCR test that gave a positive result. We are currently awaiting PCR test results for other members of the family (not including myself, as I haven't had contact recently enough to be affected).

[macliam]

It depends on the LFD in question, there are different types. Generally, those required for travel etc., have a high specificity - but this leaves the obvious fact that there are those which are less accurate..... just like PPE, not all are equal.

PCR tests, being lab-based, are more likely to be of high specificity (otherwise the lab loses its license (as has happened).... but the main difference is the ability to sequence-test PCR results to indicate the specific strain of the virus. However, this has major issues, firstly the need for lab processing builds in delays (you can contract Covid in the 48 hours it takes to get a PCR result, then the cost because of the need for processing plus postage etc., then the low number of positive results which are actually sequenced (and it is pitifully low).

All in all, it's horses for courses - but if action was taken to prevent lower specificity LFD tests from being distributed, it would help!

[Sarah]

Order coronavirus (COVID-19) rapid lateral flow tests service has run out of test kits:

Sorry, there are no more home test kits available right now.

Try again later.

Or, you can go back and try to book a test site appointment instead.

[macliam]

Order coronavirus (COVID-19) rapid lateral flow tests service has run out of test kits:

Sorry, there are no more home test kits available right now.

Try again later.

Or, you can go back and try to book a test site appointment instead.

Yeah, that's what happens when you tell everyone to do LFD tests!

Guess how happy I am with the current panic - my 2nd jab is not until 5th January, now clown-face is saying two jabs is not enough to protect you AND at the same time increasing the demand on vaccines!!!