This governments shenanigans

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Richard Frost
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Re: This governments shenanigans

Post by Richard Frost » Wed Dec 08 2021 4:07pm

Allegra Stratton has resigned. (collateral damage perhaps)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59584736
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Re: This governments shenanigans

Post by macliam » Wed Dec 08 2021 6:39pm

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Re: This governments shenanigans

Post by macliam » Wed Dec 08 2021 10:14pm

I think it's clear that I am not a Tory supporter - in fact I would go further and say the same as I told Dr. Therese Coffey to her face, I will give them my vote "when hell Freezes over". However, I have friends who vote Tory and my late neighbour, a lovely man, had once been a Tory candidate - and although we argued the finer points, his true one-nation conservatism seemed conservative rather than radical - and certainly not right-wing.

So, where are we now? I challenge anyone to justify Johnson remaining as PM, or indeed remaining in any position of power. He has already proven to be a liar. He has already shown his lack of moral integrity, both on a personal and a public level. He has already proven not to be averse to evading the checks and balances of Parliament, It is arguable that he actually committed a crime in proroguing Parliament (the act was adjudged unlawful, so it's a short step...). He has surrounded himself with a cabal of talentless self-serving apparatchiks and excused, if not encouraged, their crimes and misdemeanours - and he has shown his own naked ambition in throwing anyone undder a bus to achieve the outcome he wants. Is this REALLY a man you want as PM?

So, today, in Parliament, after all the crocodile tears and the sad-clown act, when taken to task by Starmer, Johnson had the venom to accuse his opponent of "playing politics" with the issue and "undermining" the public health message over Covid. Clearly, like the Messiah, you are either with him or against him.........

You couldn't make it up.
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Re: This governments shenanigans

Post by Richard Frost » Wed Dec 08 2021 10:36pm

macliam wrote:
Wed Dec 08 2021 10:14pm

So, today, in Parliament, after all the crocodile tears and the sad-clown act, when taken to task by Starmer, Johnson had the venom to accuse his opponent of "playing politics" with the issue and "undermining" the public health message over Covid. Clearly, like the Messiah, you are either with him or against him.........

You couldn't make it up.
When in a corner Boris always goes on the attack and accuses Starmer of "playing politics" or "undermining the public health message over Covid" it just goes to prove he has no real defence or justification for his actions.
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Re: This governments shenanigans

Post by parchedpeas » Wed Dec 08 2021 10:52pm

macliam wrote:
Wed Dec 08 2021 10:14pm
So, where are we now? I challenge anyone to justify Johnson remaining as PM
He's dreadful and we need rid of him as soon as possible. I would vote for literally anybody if I though that it would remove him and the current version of his party.

However, his being there has also exposed an awful lot of things that we really need to fix if we can every fix this country. We are still serfs - we've never been citizens. Our rights are lent to us, we don't own them. We have no power when the executive goes rogue, because the powers that should check the executive all rely on the continuity of the system.

And the system is broken. Beyond repair. The House of Lords speaks for me more than the House of Commons does and that cannot be right. I respect the Queen, but I think we need to talk about the monarchy: is it just ceremonial? In which case, let's disassociate the monarchs' powers and give them to a legislature that can represent the people. This cannot be the Commons, because the party system, and the unfair voting system, means that it doesn't represent the people.

There are better ways to run a country. Johnson has shown us how bad it can be when a minority government can sustain just enough to stay in power, against the overwhelming will of the majority. Labour are not going to attract enough to win outright, although I wish they would.

Johnson is the worst PM we've ever had, but I hope - I really hope - that these lows we are living through will help to inform the next generations to fix the democratic deficit that the typical serf - you, I - current struggle under. The odds are stacked against us, and they don't need to be. We can have a better, fairer country.

But it starts with the removal of Johnson.
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Re: This governments shenanigans

Post by macliam » Wed Dec 08 2021 11:23pm

The wagons are being circled by the grandees, there is a huge self-inflicted wound in their authority and I'm sure they wish that Johnson would, quite literally, fall under a bus. It's hard to read what's going to happen, because those who actually wield the power are not in clear sight - however, Johnson must have a huge target on his back and I doubt he will be the leader for the next election.

The problem is, that's a long way away - and today, away from the pantomime of parliament, another brick in the wall of British democracy was removed when the execrable Nationality & Borders bill was forced through- all amendments were defeated by a reduced Tory majority . This bill seeks to allow the Home Secretary to remove the citizenship of anyone who MAY have the ability to apply for another passport - this ability does not have to be proven, the person does not need to be informed and it explicitly accepts that they will be rendered stateless until another passport can be arranged. This effectively "legalises" the questionable antics of fellow-apparatchik Sajid Javid when he removed Shamima Begum's citizenship even though she had no other nationality.

You may think this does not affect you, you may not worry about the morality of making someone stateless and leaving them with no defence - you may think it is just another tool in Patel's box of tricks. BUT, it could affect an estimated 8 million fellow Britons - anyone who might have a claim to another nationality through a parent - and it removes these actions from any legal challenge or parliamentary oversight.

You may not be concerned by all this - but I am!
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Re: This governments shenanigans

Post by macliam » Thu Dec 09 2021 10:32am

I just listened to an interview on BBC R4 Today with Marcus Fysh, Tory MP for Yeovil..... summary, all experts are exaggerating, the new variant might be good for us, "massive" restrictions are illiberal and dangerous. It seems Trumpism lives on.

So, I looked him up. Born in Australia, went to Cambridge, lives in a priory. Voted against new housing in his area. Voted against LGBT-inclusive sex and relationship education in English schools. Failed to declare money earned through directorships and "adopted a deprecatory and, at points, patronising tone towards the commissioner and the registrar, which was unacceptable, as were his unfounded questions about their objectivity."

So, a man of the people then............
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Re: This governments shenanigans

Post by blythburgh » Thu Dec 09 2021 10:58am

I feel sorry for macliam, Dr Coffey is not an MP I would want and he has no chance of her ever losing her seat.

And I would not vote a Tory to be my MP. But must admit my admiration for mine, Peter Aldous has increased. He was on the Radio 4 news roundup at midday yesterday. Believed Boris until he saw the video and is now incensed.

A decent hard working MP who I would not have to hold my nose to vote for. But like the "good" doctor he got over 50% of the vote at the last two elections. Not sure about further back than that
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Re: This governments shenanigans

Post by oldboy » Thu Dec 09 2021 7:38pm

Richard Frost wrote:
Wed Dec 08 2021 10:36pm
macliam wrote:
Wed Dec 08 2021 10:14pm

So, today, in Parliament, after all the crocodile tears and the sad-clown act, when taken to task by Starmer, Johnson had the venom to accuse his opponent of "playing politics" with the issue and "undermining" the public health message over Covid. Clearly, like the Messiah, you are either with him or against him.........

You couldn't make it up.
When in a corner Boris always goes on the attack and accuses Starmer of "playing politics" or "undermining the public health message over Covid" it just goes to prove he has no real defence or justification for his actions.
Richard on this one Mire Johnsons is right, Mr Starmer is playing politics, after all that's his job. One of the many problems is Brassy Johnson hasn't realised it's also supposed to be his job.
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Re: This governments shenanigans

Post by macliam » Thu Dec 09 2021 9:21pm

oldboy wrote:
Thu Dec 09 2021 7:38pm
Richard on this one Mire Johnsons is right, Mr Starmer is playing politics, after all that's his job. One of the many problems is Brassy Johnson hasn't realised it's also supposed to be his job.
Sorry oldboy, I disagree.

"Playing politics" infers making a political point out of a non-political issue...... and that certainly isn't true in this case. Starmer, for all his faults, is a Barrister, so chooses his words and his points of attack well -

He points out that Johnson has still not accepted that a party took place, but sought to deflect attention by focusing on the mock interview. This is true.

He says that it seems very unlikely that Johnson would not have known, or have been informed, of any form of celebration taking place in Downing Street by members of his own staff. Either he is lying or he is imcompetent or he is surrounded by idiots or any combination of the three.

He has asked if the Tory party will hand over ALL relevant documents to the investigation (this in the light of the video, which obviously existed, which was known about, yet which only came to light due to the action of a whistleblower). This is merely setting up the statement that we all know will come later, when some things are found to have bee witheld.

None of these questions are "playing politics", they are doing what he is paid to do, to hold Johnson to account for his actions (or lack of them).

It is also patently untrue that Starmer has been "undermining" the public health message over Covid, because the main opposition to any government actions to date has come from their own backbenches, not from Labour MPs and certainly not from the Labour leadership.

So, surprise, surprise, Johnson has actually made two statements and lied in both - really "playing politics" to suggest that Starmer is in the wrong. However, like all conmen, he makes the lie seem plausible (in his case by repeating it ad infinitum). He is not stupid, he is not a clown, he is a very, very dangerous man surrounded by a group of nonentities ready to do his bidding. He is not a Thatcher, because she would have provided him with a new orifice from which to spout his lies by now..... and I don't say that from any admiration of Thatcher!
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