Member poll: Do you agree to the proposal for the Club's strategy?

Discussion of the proposed Cashback Investment Club

Moderator: CIC officers

Do you agree with the proposal?

Poll ended at Tue May 03 2016 9:27am

Yes
12
86%
No
2
14%
 
Total votes: 14

garindan
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Member poll: Do you agree to the proposal for the Club's strategy?

Post by garindan » Tue Apr 26 2016 9:27am

Members,

Hopefully you have read the proposal I set out. There have been comments but nothing specific to change the details. Their has been support from a number of members to take this forward, so here is a poll to decide whether or not we take this step. The poll is open for 7 days but please vote as soon as you can so we can wrap this one up.

There is no "none of the above" option on this one as you either need to agree or disagree with the proposal. A vote for neither is in effect a no vote anyway :o

A reminder of the proposal:

(i) Buying and selling strategy

The Club will build towards a portfolio of up to ~8 shares, consisting of:
- a foundation of 4 or 5 long-term shares
- up to 4 short- to medium-term shares at any one time

The strategy is to build income from the long-term shares and make quicker gains from share value increases on the short- to medium-term shares.

Long-term shares

The long-term shares should:
- be bought on the basis of generating income of ~5% or greater, per year, via dividends
- be bought on the basis of having good potential for long-term growth
- each be from different market sectors to protect against poor performance
- generally be held for a number of years
- generally be exited from should the value increase by 25% or more from the purchase price
- generally be held even if the price decreases by up to 25% from the purchase price

The Club should look to increase stakes in long-term shares. This should be approached so as to ensure as evenly distributed investment as possible. Investment should be targeted when prices are favourable, thus aiming to ensure the continued long-term growth potential. Therefore, once the Club is ~3 years old, it should aim to have at least four strong long-term holdings, each of at least £1000+ in total.

Short- to medium-term shares

The short- to medium-term shares should:
- be bought on the basis of having a very good potential for short- to medium-term growth
- each be from different market sectors to protect against poor performance
- be held for a period of up to a year
- generally be exited from should the value increase by 15% or more from the purchase price
- generally be exited from should the value decrease by 15% from the purchase price
- be exited from should the share no longer be deemed to meet the brief of a short- medium-term share or could alternatively be converted to a longer-term share if it meets that brief

In general, the Club should look to sell short- to medium-term shares for profit and within a year of purchase. Therefore, by the time the Club is ~3 years old it should have made a number of short- to medium-term share trades, hopefully for profit. Each investment made should be no more than £600, including costs at this point in time to prevent undue risk.

Selling shares

Every share has an exit price, even those considered as a longer-term investment. There is nothing wrong with taking the profit when it meets your requirement earlier than expected. Likewise, there comes a point when a losing share cannot be kept any longer for risk of further loss. The Club needs to use limits to capture these and other scenarios.

There are three automated limits available to the Club to control sales. These are:
- limit:sell – used to sell shares when the value increases to a target sale price
- stop-loss:sell – used to sell shares when the value decreases to the lowest allowable price
- tracking:sell – used to track the peak share value upwards and set a stop-loss:sell price at a fixed margin below
Each share should have at least one sale limit set. It is suggested:
- each share has a limit:sell set at a price deemed realistically possible, according to historical value analysis and forward forecasting
- each share has a tracking:sell set (25% for long-term investments and 15% for short- to medium-term)

By setting a limit:sell for each share the Club puts in place a static price that represents an agreed return for the investment, which is automatically triggered when the current share value breaches the threshold. This is an important automation as it removes the need for a manual sale, which might not be implemented quickly enough to take advantage of a spike in share value.

Long-term shares should have their tracking:sell limit decreased to 15% if the share reaches a +15% value. Short- to medium term shares should have their tracking:sell limit decreased to 5% of the purchase price when the value of the share hits +5%. By rolling-up these limits the Club can attempt to minimise a loss and attempt to build a profit in the case of every share.

Selecting shares for potential purchase

As a Club, we need to be able to identify potential shares for purchase, assess their merits and determine what the entry and exit prices might be. This needs to be done so that there is a reason to purchase, otherwise we greatly reduce the ability we have to make a profit on our investments. Previously we have been a bit too anxious to get on with the purchase, which is understandable seeing we were just starting out and wanted to have some shares in our portfolio. Now we have a number of shares we need to learn from the experiences to date and become more strategic in our buying practices.

Firstly, we need to split our efforts into longer-term and short- to medium-term. Each has a different set of requirements and our selection process needs to take them into account. Secondly, we need to identify a number of different shares to monitor for each type of purchase. If we are able to judge sensible entry and exit prices before purchase we will be able to bide our time and purchase at the right price.

Buying shares

Before buying any shares the Club needs to make a decision about which type of share should be bought. This may be either a long-term share or a short- to medium-term share. Which will depend upon the current makeup of the Club’s portfolio and the attractiveness of the share price.

Through the process of selecting shares, the Club will have set out target entry prices for each. If the Club can also agree on prioritising this list of shares it will make the buying process easier. We can then simply buy the highest ranked share on the appropriate list that meets the target entry price. There would be no need for a vote as it would have been pre-agreed. This method would allow purchasing to be efficient, timely and provide the Club with increased opportunity to make a profit. If no shares meet the target buying price the investment would not need to be made and further discussion could take place.

Reviewing market conditions

The markets can change very rapidly. An investment made one day for a specific return can be quite sensible only for the outlook to be completely different the following week. In this sense the Club must monitor all shares within its portfolio and re-assess whether the objectives for each share can realistically be met. Similarly, the same review is needed to ensure the details about potential shares to purchase reflect current market conditions.

Extraordinary circumstances

There can be occasions where extraordinary circumstances can significantly depress the prices of shares in general (such as the Chinese stock market depression) or within a specific market sector (such as experienced within the UK supermarkets). When such circumstances occur it may be prudent to suspend some, if not all limits, until a normal situation is resumed. This is similar to when stock markets suspend trading because of knee jerk reactions. When such circumstances arise discussion can take place to decide on the appropriate course of action.
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Re: Member poll: Do you agree to the proposal for the Club's strategy?

Post by BeautifulSunshine » Tue Apr 26 2016 11:27am

+1
[imutual Cashback Investment Club]

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Re: Member poll: Do you agree to the proposal for the Club's strategy?

Post by richard@imutual » Tue Apr 26 2016 2:16pm

I've voted no, mainly because it seems quite complex to understand and operate for our online club.

But given that the onus will fall on the chair and sec to organise the necessary discussion and votes, then I don't mind being overruled :twisted:

It does contain a lot of sensible investment principles, and glad to see a target number of shares, so I'm happy to see how things pan out. :thumbup:
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Re: Member poll: Do you agree to the proposal for the Club's strategy?

Post by an6ypan6y » Tue Apr 26 2016 3:13pm

It's a 'YES' from me and many thanks for providing such a well thought out and measured proposal.

Sadly since joining the Club things have got very busy for me and I regret I don't have time to contribute as I wish, so I am grateful for all the hard work put in.
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Re: Member poll: Do you agree to the proposal for the Club's strategy?

Post by kevinchess1 » Tue Apr 26 2016 9:41pm

Having read it though several times I think there's more I agree with than disagree
But I'm not going to vote
Not that my non/voting will make a difference to the outcome
Politically incorrect since 69

BeautifulSunshine
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Re: Member poll: Do you agree to the proposal for the Club's strategy?

Post by BeautifulSunshine » Tue Apr 26 2016 10:59pm

richard@imutual wrote:But given that the onus will fall on the chair and sec to organise the necessary discussion and votes, then I don't mind being overruled :twisted:
I speak, and speak for myself alone, I'm not afraid of hardwork.
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garindan
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Re: Member poll: Do you agree to the proposal for the Club's strategy?

Post by garindan » Sun May 01 2016 10:48am

Still 3 votes to be cast, minus kevin as he has in effect voted no by not voting :think:

If you voted no or didn't vote and wish to share the aspects that stopped you voting yes that would be really helpful. We should be considering all aspects and keeping them to yourself and not sharing (Rich excused) doesn't help us improve the concept :(
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Re: Member poll: Do you agree to the proposal for the Club's strategy?

Post by timco » Sun May 01 2016 1:20pm

Simply currently do not have the time to read and digest so will not be voting either thus decide one way or the other.
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garindan
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Re: Member poll: Do you agree to the proposal for the Club's strategy?

Post by garindan » Sun May 01 2016 1:27pm

We have one member away right now too I think, so I guess that adds up to the 17 members in total with two non-voters.

Still interested in the views of what looks to be two other members who voted no or not at all :thumbup:
Chairman: iMutual's Cashback Investment Club (CIC) - contact me about joining!
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Re: Member poll: Do you agree to the proposal for the Club's strategy?

Post by garindan » Tue May 03 2016 2:42pm

So now this is agreed as the approach. I am going to start by setting up the respective tracking:sell parameters for the shares I am able to without issue. More about those where the settings are not as easy to set shortly...
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