macliam wrote:This is an oddity - but shows that reactionary influences exist everywhere
In the Irish Constitution of 1937, the method of election was fixed as Proportional Representation, Single Transferable Vote (PR-STV). This was quite revolutionary in replacing the First-Past-The-Post system inherited from Britain. However,the majority party, Fianna Fail, proposed to revert to the old system - in the face of possible coalition beween Fine Gael and the Labour Party. The first attempt was in 1959 and was rejected in a referendum. The second (referred here) would have allowed for variable voter-density constituencies and changed elections from PR-STV to FPTP with single-member constituencies. This was again narrowly rejected in a referendum held on 16 October 1968.
To put that in context, best remember that in Northern Ireland there was not even universal suffrage at that time - only ratepayers had the vote......
Hard to say - one thing I heard here was a fear about the "loss" of a local MP under PR, but that didn't seem a problem in the Republic, everyone knew who their TD was. For sure there have been more minority governments and coalitions than in the UK..... which may not have been a bad thing. Party divisions are different as both traditional "major" parties are centre-right (divisions stem from the Civil War), but Fine Gael has often been in coalition with the Labour Party (centre left). So there have been few outright-majority parties able to pursue party dogma (hence FFs attempt to revert to FPTP) Whilst there's a lot of pi$$ and wind in the Dail, things get done and the Republic has changed hugely in recent years and there are more minority parties in the Dail (SF, Labour, Greens, etc as well as independents), so PR-STV seems to work just fine.Boro Boy wrote:I know there are so many different version of voting systems other than the first past the post but has the Irish version worked or has it just always caused anomalies and problems?
No problem. IMO, changes in the Republic have been progressive - particularly given the situation at the time the constitution was written. Few British people know or understand the situation in Ireland after the Anglo-Irish war ended - it was neither a clean break, nor anything likely to engender trust in the British government.blythburgh wrote:Thanks to Boro Boy and macliam for very interesting posts.
It depends, PR-STV has its faults, but allows independents and smaller parties to gain representation denied them by the FPTP system. IMHO, the disconnect with a "local MP" is largely meaningless in these days of "parachuted" candidates and merely allows the major parties to focus on getting their blue-eyed boys (and girls) elected in safe seats.Constantine wrote:I struggle to see why we need more 'research' into electoral reform. We know what the alternatives to FPTP are. It's just a question of whether the alternatives will produce better or worse outcomes.
Personally I believe that we would end up with a different kind of worse.
That's exactly what I mean, You think that allowing "smaller parties to gain representation" is a 'good thing', many people take the opposite view. Certainly almost every country that has party list PR has a threshold specifically to exclude smaller parties.macliam wrote:...
It depends, PR-STV has its faults, but allows independents and smaller parties to gain representation denied them by the FPTP system. IMHO, the disconnect with a "local MP" is largely meaningless in these days of "parachuted" candidates and merely allows the major parties to focus on getting their blue-eyed boys (and girls) elected in safe seats.
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