This is the truth about Brexit if you are not British

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Re: This is the truth about Brexit if you are not British

Post by Sarah » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:20 am

The vote to leave the EU has already cost a cumulative total of £55bn in lost GDP since 23 June 2016 according to the Bank Of England.
if you prefer it in bus units, it’s £800m a week
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ate-setter
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Re: This is the truth about Brexit if you are not British

Post by macliam » Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:10 pm

pabenny wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:39 am
From what I've read above, Mrs Macliam was granted the right to remain in the UK indefinitely in around 1989. What appears to be changing is how that is formally documented - a little like the way in which passports, driving licenses and other official documents must be renewed from time to time.

I'm happy to be corrected on this
The right to remain is not a document like a passport of driving license. It is a stamp in the initial passport and a letter of confirmation, stating that any new passport can be stamped accordingly. There is no time limit or expiry date.

So, if the government decided, for a laugh, that EU passports were expired and everyone had to re-apply for a blue passport on Brexit, you'd be happy, eh?

The financial cost of Brexit is as nothing compared to the loss of reputation that the UK has suffered. RoW is asking itself, if they can renege on agreements and can't agree amongst themselves what they want, why should we trust them. Cue the backstop........
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Re: This is the truth about Brexit if you are not British

Post by pabenny » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:21 pm

My passport provides evidence of my British citizenship. The obligation to renew my document doesn't affect my citizenship. And I don't need to resit a driving test to renew my driving license.

Similarly, asking those with indefinite right to remain to renew their documents does not seem unreasonable - unless there is the possibility of that right being revoked. I agree completely that indefinite right to remain, once granted, should not be open to withdrawal (save for serious criminality).
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Re: This is the truth about Brexit if you are not British

Post by William Joseph1 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:34 pm

pabenny wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:21 pm
My passport provides evidence of my British citizenship. The obligation to renew my document doesn't affect my citizenship. And I don't need to resit a driving test to renew my driving license.

Similarly, asking those with indefinite right to remain to renew their documents does not seem unreasonable - unless there is the possibility of that right being revoked. I agree completely that indefinite right to remain, once granted, should not be open to withdrawal (save for serious criminality).
If you have "Indefinite leave to remain" what is their to renew? It is a stamp/sticky piece of paper in a passport or a letter inferring that right and should mean what it says. The indefinite right to remain in the country that granted that privilege. It does not have to be physically in the passport. if that document has expired the letter can be carried with any new travel documents and has equal validity. Equally one could carry the original Passport/travel document bearing the information alongside any new documents.
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Re: This is the truth about Brexit if you are not British

Post by macliam » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:24 pm

pabenny wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:39 am
...... I'm put in mind of the poem by Martin Niemoeller about the rise of the Nazis:
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
My earlier post (or attempted post?)re this seems to have disappeared into the ether......

The "discussion" about Shamima Begum seems an appropriate place for this. Of course, these days Niemoeller would be dismissed as a "virtue-signalling libtard" and people would be at pains to point out that the government "coming for" the individuals had been voted into power and had legal backing for their actions.
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Re: This is the truth about Brexit if you are not British

Post by pabenny » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:07 am

macliam wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:24 pm
The "discussion" about Shamima Begum seems an appropriate place for this.
You're right. When posting, I thought the two threads were converging around questions of how we treat or mis-treat "foreigners".

Perhaps the next step will be for citizens of EU member states to wear a yellow star like those on the EU flag.

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Re: This is the truth about Brexit if you are not British

Post by blythburgh » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:01 am

The Govt. seems capable of changing things retropectively.

I heard on the Beeb how people were paid in the form of a loan which they never had to repay. Hence no tax paid to the Exchequer. Some were persuaded this was the best option, others felt that they would not get the job unless they were paid like this. But all were in agreement, HMRC (tax office) knew about the agreements and were happy with them.

Now these people are being asked to pay the tax they legally avoided. Unfortunately they are not mega rich people and feel they will have to sell their homes or file for bankruptcy. The HMRC are moving the goalposts retrospectively.

Not saying I approve of the tax avoidance but do feel for people who face losing everything because of the HMRC retropectively change to the rules rather than from this day on.
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Re: This is the truth about Brexit if you are not British

Post by pabenny » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:21 am

Tax is considerably off topic, but I will respond on this point. Despite what people may be complaining about, loans to employees have always carried a potential tax charge - on interest (if below market rate) and if the loan is written off.

HMRC being aware of a scheme is not the same as approving it. Without the detailed facts, it's difficult to comment with certainty; however it seems more likely that people were mis-sold a tax reduction scheme. Further, it seems that they were naïve to believe that their earnings could escape tax.
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Re: This is the truth about Brexit if you are not British

Post by blythburgh » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:31 am

I only mentioned the tax thing because it shows how the Govt seems capabable of changing the goalposts. The WIndrush debacle seems to be another.

And as for tax dodges, some firms have pushed or even demanded their employees joined them. Somthing that should be banned IMHO.

But to get back on topic.

I feel sorry for anyone who has put down roots here but does not have full citizenship and fears they might have to leave when we leave the EU. And that goes for spouses/partners who have British citizenship and have been led to believe that they have the legal right to stay here. Like Mrs Macliam
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