IS Teenager Shaminna Begum to lose British Citizenship

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Boro Boy
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Re: IS Teenager Shaminna Begum to lose British Citizenship

Post by Boro Boy » Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:31 pm

pabenny wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:33 pm
Boro Boy wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:46 am
blythburgh wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:31 am
Nothing excuses killing innocent people.
...or those supporting such actions!
So does that mean that you oppose western military action in Syria, Afghanistan, etc?

Peculiar illogical question...!?! :wtf:

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Re: IS Teenager Shaminna Begum to lose British Citizenship

Post by pabenny » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:25 pm

Not illogical or peculiar.

"Innocent people" have been killed as a result of western military action in Syria and Afghanistan. So if you think that nothing excuses killing innocent people, or supporting such actions, you must oppose that action.

Or else believe that the civilians killed were "guilty" merely by being in the wrong place.
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Re: IS Teenager Shaminna Begum to lose British Citizenship

Post by pabenny » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:40 pm

To be clear, I do not condone terrorism, nor do I condone any attack that targets civilians. I support severe penalties within the law for those who instigate or commit acts of terror.

We do have to take care that we do not hold "them" to a standard that we do not apply to ourselves.
We have to take care that the penalties we apply are proportionate to the offence. And we have to acknowledge genuine grievances held in the communities where the terrorists originate.
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Re: IS Teenager Shaminna Begum to lose British Citizenship

Post by Boro Boy » Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:47 pm

pabenny wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:25 pm
Not illogical or peculiar.

"Innocent people" have been killed as a result of western military action in Syria and Afghanistan. So if you think that nothing excuses killing innocent people, or supporting such actions, you must oppose that action.

Or else believe that the civilians killed were "guilty" merely by being in the wrong place.
"Must"!?! This is silly - I would like to think you understand the differences between a Soft Target and Targeted Civilians as opposed to those (not targeted) accidentally hurt in a war zone. :wtf:
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Re: IS Teenager Shaminna Begum to lose British Citizenship

Post by pabenny » Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:59 pm

Boro Boy wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:47 pm
I would like to think you understand the differences between a Soft Target and Targeted Civilians as opposed to those (not targeted) accidentally hurt in a war zone.
Of course I see the difference. But that's not what you said.

What you're now saying is "nothing excuses killing innocent people unless they happen to be accidentally hit when attacking a legitimate target". Which is fine.

Except that the likes of IS use the reprehensible practice of making non-combatants into human shields. And every non-combatant death at our hands justifies (in their eyes) attacks on ordinary people going about their ordinary business, whether here on their own countries.

All of which serves to show it's never as simple as statements like "nothing excuses..."
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Re: IS Teenager Shaminna Begum to lose British Citizenship

Post by Boro Boy » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:25 pm

pabenny wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:59 pm
Boro Boy wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:47 pm
I would like to think you understand the differences between a Soft Target and Targeted Civilians as opposed to those (not targeted) accidentally hurt in a war zone.
Of course I see the difference. But that's not what you said.

What you're now saying is "nothing excuses killing innocent people unless they happen to be accidentally hit when attacking a legitimate target". Which is fine.

Except that the likes of IS use the reprehensible practice of making non-combatants into human shields. And every non-combatant death at our hands justifies (in their eyes) attacks on ordinary people going about their ordinary business, whether here on their own countries.

All of which serves to show it's never as simple as statements like "nothing excuses..."
Don't forget their beheadings, burying alive of the Infidels, throwing Homosexuals off tall buildings, rapes and sodomising of young girls and young children not to mention forced slavery...

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Re: IS Teenager Shaminna Begum to lose British Citizenship

Post by pabenny » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:00 pm

Not forgotten. No-one here has disagreed that those are dreadful things (although it appears from another thread that there is at least one who might agree with their treatment of homosexuals).

If we're talking about misdeeds, mention could also be made of waterboarding and other torture of prisoners, detention without trial (it's 17+ years since 9/11 and there are still people in Guantanamo Bay who have not been tried), forcing Muslims to eat pork, etc.

I condone none of those things. But in the words of a wise man, let he who is without sin case the first stone.
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Re: IS Teenager Shaminna Begum to lose British Citizenship

Post by blythburgh » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:14 am

pabenny wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:33 pm
Boro Boy wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:46 am
blythburgh wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:31 am
Nothing excuses killing innocent people.
...or those supporting such actions!
So does that mean that you oppose western military action in Syria, Afghanistan, etc?
I was referring to terrorists/freedom fighters
Keep smiling because the light at the end of someone's tunnel may be you, Ron Cheneler

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Re: IS Teenager Shaminna Begum to lose British Citizenship

Post by kevinchess1 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:25 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47500387

As macliam predicted :(

Makes me ashamed to be British


I'll say a prayer
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Re: IS Teenager Shaminna Begum to lose British Citizenship

Post by macliam » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:53 pm

kevinchess1 wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:25 pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47500387

As macliam predicted :(

Makes me ashamed to be British


I'll say a prayer
Well said kev.

I take no pleasure from my prediction, both Ms Begum and the child have become victims of an understandable reaction to the horrors that daesh perpetrated on its victims - who, let us not forget, were mainly other Muslims. However, the difference between the "civilised world" and daesh should be the way in which we treat those who oppose us. In this case, the child was condemned for a crime of which he was innocent - so shame is the correct response.

Perhaps those calling for vengeance against Ms Begum will be satisfied that she has now lost 3 of her own children due to her misguided actions.
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