500 lives saved

Discussion about miscellaneous topics not covered by other forums
blythburgh
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Re: 500 lives saved

Post by blythburgh » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:32 am

Stop leaving appliances on standby, stop leaving lights on in empty rooms, remove your charger from the socket when not in use.

If we all did that we would need far less windturbines. I have heard we would need less power stations.

But will we? I think I am in a small minority that bothers to do this.
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Re: 500 lives saved

Post by Chadwick » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:39 am

Boro Boy wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:13 pm
Personally I am not against the introduction of green energies, what I am against is having this policies imposed on people; if there is something good it should receive backing (Carrot & Stick) not have it imposed on us by green warriors stuffing it down our throats with statistics that in many cases only work in an ideal world.
Fortunately there is a built-in check in the system.

To build a green power station (wind farm, solar array etc) costs money. And proportionally more when the technology is new. Whoever stumps up the money is going to want to get it back. If it's an investment firm, or a private company, or even a bank, they will want it back with a profit. Government bodies might be happy to just break even.

So the statistics behind the scheme have to show that it is financially worthwhile, as well as environmentally beneficial. This means 'green warriors' can't just 'stuff it down your throat'. They have to prove it works to the men-in-suits.
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Re: 500 lives saved

Post by Boro Boy » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:49 pm

Chadwick wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:39 am
Boro Boy wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:13 pm
Personally I am not against the introduction of green energies, what I am against is having this policies imposed on people; if there is something good it should receive backing (Carrot & Stick) not have it imposed on us by green warriors stuffing it down our throats with statistics that in many cases only work in an ideal world.
Fortunately there is a built-in check in the system.

To build a green power station (wind farm, solar array etc) costs money. And proportionally more when the technology is new. Whoever stumps up the money is going to want to get it back. If it's an investment firm, or a private company, or even a bank, they will want it back with a profit. Government bodies might be happy to just break even.

So the statistics behind the scheme have to show that it is financially worthwhile, as well as environmentally beneficial. This means 'green warriors' can't just 'stuff it down your throat'. They have to prove it works to the men-in-suits.
Tell that to the people of Redcar...

REPEAT: Regional Secretary of the Northern TUC Kevin Rowan said: "The Northern TUC is not opposed to the notion of wind power. But the proposal to create the wind farm off the coast of Redcar will create more environmental problems than it will solve."

The array is 1.5km off the coast rather than the normal 5km
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Re: 500 lives saved

Post by macliam » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:47 pm

Again with the negatives - for chrissakes, suggest a better strategy or just keep schtum.

People's lives have been blighted by sinkholes caused by mining - they never had a say, People have objected to fracking and been overruled, so it's not just "green" schemes that cause issues.

The world isn't perfect, if you look for negatives, you'll surely find them - BUT, doing what we've always done won't cut it, the world has changed and even if you doubt global warming, a look at the issues of becoming a nett energy importer and prejudicing the UKs energy security should worry you.
Last edited by macliam on Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 500 lives saved

Post by Chadwick » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:39 pm

Boro Boy wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:49 pm
Chadwick wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:39 am
Boro Boy wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:13 pm
Personally I am not against the introduction of green energies, what I am against is having this policies imposed on people; if there is something good it should receive backing (Carrot & Stick) not have it imposed on us by green warriors stuffing it down our throats with statistics that in many cases only work in an ideal world.
Fortunately there is a built-in check in the system.

To build a green power station (wind farm, solar array etc) costs money. And proportionally more when the technology is new. Whoever stumps up the money is going to want to get it back. If it's an investment firm, or a private company, or even a bank, they will want it back with a profit. Government bodies might be happy to just break even.

So the statistics behind the scheme have to show that it is financially worthwhile, as well as environmentally beneficial. This means 'green warriors' can't just 'stuff it down your throat'. They have to prove it works to the men-in-suits.
Tell that to the people of Redcar...

REPEAT: Regional Secretary of the Northern TUC Kevin Rowan said: "The Northern TUC is not opposed to the notion of wind power. But the proposal to create the wind farm off the coast of Redcar will create more environmental problems than it will solve."

The array is 1.5km off the coast rather than the normal 5km
Well, if the Reg Sec of the Northern TUC says so, that must supersede any other opinion, and you are therefore right.

By the way, is this a 5 minute argument, or the full half hour?

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Re: 500 lives saved

Post by pabenny » Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:21 am

Boro Boy wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:49 pm
REPEAT: Regional Secretary of the Northern TUC Kevin Rowan said: "The Northern TUC is not opposed to the notion of wind power. But the proposal to create the wind farm off the coast of Redcar will create more environmental problems than it will solve."
The Redcar windfarm was first proposed almost 10 years ago and was brought into operation six years ago.
The views expressed in this quote (and, by the way, it's not previously been mentioned in this thread) will have been now have been overtaken by actual evidence.

I would predict that evidence - if it has been collected - shows some disruption to local marine wildlife that isn't overall harmful and which is difficult to directly attribute to the windfarm. At the same time, we have some 60MW of generating capacity using clean energy rather than fossil fuels.

If you accept that climate change is real and needs action, or if you are concerned about energy security, this must be a Good Thing.

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Re: 500 lives saved

Post by Boro Boy » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:25 am

pabenny wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:21 am
Boro Boy wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:49 pm
REPEAT: Regional Secretary of the Northern TUC Kevin Rowan said: "The Northern TUC is not opposed to the notion of wind power. But the proposal to create the wind farm off the coast of Redcar will create more environmental problems than it will solve."
The Redcar windfarm was first proposed almost 10 years ago and was brought into operation six years ago.
The views expressed in this quote (and, by the way, it's not previously been mentioned in this thread) will have been now have been overtaken by actual evidence.

I would predict that evidence - if it has been collected - shows some disruption to local marine wildlife that isn't overall harmful and which is difficult to directly attribute to the windfarm. At the same time, we have some 60MW of generating capacity using clean energy rather than fossil fuels.

If you accept that climate change is real and needs action, or if you are concerned about energy security, this must be a Good Thing.
Are you trying to see how far you you can go at twisting things!?!

The Northern TUC quote is a repeat from earlier in the thread, see entry: Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:20 am

Who said anything about global warming denial?

I'm thinking you are just trying to twist the truth any hoping readers accept it as the new truth... Strange approach!

As far as the Redcar array is concerned, it should never have been built so close to the coast, gaining one benefit at the cost of another is always dubious!
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Re: 500 lives saved

Post by blythburgh » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:37 am

And I repeat how much more greenhouse gas does it take to build, install, service and dismantle these offshore wind turbines compared to onshore ones and solar panels?

And remember the huge extra cost of building them offshore is added to our energy bills.

If that money was put into making sure every new build had solar panels it would be more cost effective in reduction of greenhouse gases.
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Re: 500 lives saved

Post by pabenny » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:29 am

Boro Boy wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:25 am
The Northern TUC quote is a repeat from earlier in the thread, see entry: Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:20 am
My apologies, I didn't remember the remark and I missed that when scrolling through.
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Re: 500 lives saved

Post by pabenny » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:39 am

Mr Boro Boy, I am also somewhat confused about your position on the Redcar windfarm and green energy in general.

I understand that you find it ugly and that you believe it to have been built too close to the shoreline. If that's your objection, fine. We can agree to differ - beauty is often a matter of taste.

Yet you complain about the Redcar windfarm on environmental grounds and are generally critical of other green energy and its supporters. At the same time you have said that you are "not against the introduction of green energy".

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