I'm surprised Boro Boy has not complained about this yet

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macliam
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Re: I'm surprised Boro Boy has not complained about this yet

Post by macliam » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:27 pm

Boro Boy wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:24 am
stockportcounty wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:48 am
pabenny wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:59 am
Mr Boro Boy seems more interested in being provocative than engaging in debate. I'm out.
i may not be boroboy's best admirer but don't you think the provocation was in the topic title
At last one of the silence majority speaks up - thank you. I sincerely hope you are not hounded by the mob for doing so!

I hope you can also recognise how some members twist what has previously been said and then make it a new truth. I have recently been blamed for things I have not done on here! What do these members expect me to do when they act like a hungers dog pack blinded by their own reality...! I don't roll over, I give as good as I get. I don't give personal insults, I don't dirty myself with these tactics unlike some who try to dirty other members character.
Careful with that halo, Boro Boy, it might get snagged on your ego. ;)

I agree the title was provocative, but we all know why...... a plethora of unsupported statements over evidence and continual reversion to the same laboured claims. Continuous denigration of any alternate views and a refusal to clarify or support opinions. I rest my valise, m'lud.
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Boro Boy
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Re: I'm surprised Boro Boy has not complained about this yet

Post by Boro Boy » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:10 pm

macliam wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:27 pm
Boro Boy wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:24 am
stockportcounty wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:48 am

i may not be boroboy's best admirer but don't you think the provocation was in the topic title
At last one of the silence majority speaks up - thank you. I sincerely hope you are not hounded by the mob for doing so!

I hope you can also recognise how some members twist what has previously been said and then make it a new truth. I have recently been blamed for things I have not done on here! What do these members expect me to do when they act like a hungers dog pack blinded by their own reality...! I don't roll over, I give as good as I get. I don't give personal insults, I don't dirty myself with these tactics unlike some who try to dirty other members character.
Careful with that halo, Boro Boy, it might get snagged on your ego. ;)

I agree the title was provocative, but we all know why...... a plethora of unsupported statements over evidence and continual reversion to the same laboured claims. Continuous denigration of any alternate views and a refusal to clarify or support opinions. I rest my valise, m'lud.
...and there's an example... :wave:

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Re: I'm surprised Boro Boy has not complained about this yet

Post by William Joseph1 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:38 pm

Boro Boy wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:10 pm
macliam wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:27 pm
Boro Boy wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:24 am


At last one of the silence majority speaks up - thank you. I sincerely hope you are not hounded by the mob for doing so!

I hope you can also recognise how some members twist what has previously been said and then make it a new truth. I have recently been blamed for things I have not done on here! What do these members expect me to do when they act like a hungers dog pack blinded by their own reality...! I don't roll over, I give as good as I get. I don't give personal insults, I don't dirty myself with these tactics unlike some who try to dirty other members character.
Careful with that halo, Boro Boy, it might get snagged on your ego. ;)

I agree the title was provocative, but we all know why...... a plethora of unsupported statements over evidence and continual reversion to the same laboured claims. Continuous denigration of any alternate views and a refusal to clarify or support opinions. I rest my valise, m'lud.
...and there's an example... :wave:
Yes a good example of the truth.
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Re: I'm surprised Boro Boy has not complained about this yet

Post by Chadwick » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:06 pm

Boro Boy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:20 pm
Chadwick wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:27 pm
Boro Boy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:04 pm
"Experts" people who make qualified guesses and get it right most of the time as opposed to some of the time!

Mmmm looks like some people see only what they want to see... :wave:
What word would you like to use for people who review the available information and data, and based on their experience and knowledge and that of their peers, make the best conclusions they can from the available information?
Gamblers
Good-guessers
Speculator
:wtf:
That might explain why I don't understand your previous comment.

I would use those terms to describe someone who is chancing it, with a significant element of luck involved. Perhaps a 'speculator' (in my opinion) has done a bit of research and is prepared to invest (financially or emotionally) in their conclusions.

Whereas I use the term 'expert' to define someone who has significant knowledge and experience of their subject matter and can make informed decisions, rather than just gambling, guessing or speculating. Not always - sometimes experts put forward a theory or hypothesis that requires further investigation to prove. But the theory would be based on knowledge, experience and available evidence.

When you use the word 'expert', are you talking about someone with experience, knowledge and skill in a subject matter, or someone with a just a rudimentary grasp and access to Wikipedia?

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Re: I'm surprised Boro Boy has not complained about this yet

Post by Boro Boy » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:50 pm

Chadwick wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:06 pm
Boro Boy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:20 pm
Chadwick wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:27 pm


What word would you like to use for people who review the available information and data, and based on their experience and knowledge and that of their peers, make the best conclusions they can from the available information?
Gamblers
Good-guessers
Speculator
:wtf:
That might explain why I don't understand your previous comment.

I would use those terms to describe someone who is chancing it, with a significant element of luck involved. Perhaps a 'speculator' (in my opinion) has done a bit of research and is prepared to invest (financially or emotionally) in their conclusions.

Whereas I use the term 'expert' to define someone who has significant knowledge and experience of their subject matter and can make informed decisions, rather than just gambling, guessing or speculating. Not always - sometimes experts put forward a theory or hypothesis that requires further investigation to prove. But the theory would be based on knowledge, experience and available evidence.

When you use the word 'expert', are you talking about someone with experience, knowledge and skill in a subject matter, or someone with a just a rudimentary grasp and access to Wikipedia?
Expert = someone with deep knowledge of a subject and makes qualified guesses (called theories) and they can still get it wrong...

I recall in the recent past Government "Experts" telling us to get diesel vehicles as they were more efficient...! :wave:

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Re: I'm surprised Boro Boy has not complained about this yet

Post by macliam » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:01 pm

Boro Boy wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:50 pm
Expert = someone with deep knowledge of a subject and makes qualified guesses (called theories) and they can still get it wrong...

I recall in the recent past Government "Experts" telling us to get diesel vehicles as they were more efficient...! :wave:
As I've said before, a genius is someone who doesn't make the same mistake ONCE.

However, again you shoot yourself in the foot whilst trying to prove your point. The "experts" maintained - correctly - that diesel cars emitted less Sulphur Dioxide, which was the issue raised by the government at the time. However, I also recall "experts" at the time raising the issue of particulates - but nobody was interested.... "only easy answers need apply". So, the answer given depends upon the question asked..... and the questions are not asked by "experts". Then their replies are taken by the media and boiled down to a headline (because all those caveats are just boring :roll: ) and implemented by a government that wants to get itself out of an immediate hole ASAP. Result - predictable.

The issue of climate change - as you keep pointing out - was first spoken of as another "big freeze", because the wrong question was asked. The concept of "Global warming" is equally misunderstood. The climate is a complex beast - a change in overall temperature can affect weather patterns and result in all sorts of climactic issues, from once-in-a-lifetime freezes that happen with unusual frequency, or once-in-a lifetime flooding, that happens twice in a decade or once-in-a-lifetime droughts, etc., etc. and, it is undeniable that the overall temperature is increasing, it can be measured. All these issues are caused by the same basic mechanism - but it's all too complex for the headlines (and those who react to them) to understand, so they call it "Global Warming" ..... and then point out how it's getting colder. :shifty:

They say that a little learning is a dangerous thing - and the rise of the internet has given easier access to information that people are not necessarily able to understand - and, in parallel, it has given those who either misunderstand, or deny the evidence, the ability to spread their misinformation..... because "everyone's an expert now".

So, ask yourself - if that's true, are you happy for a plumber to operate on you, because he can see anatomy sites online??
Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get me

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Re: I'm surprised Boro Boy has not complained about this yet

Post by Boro Boy » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:06 pm

macliam wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:01 pm
Boro Boy wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:50 pm
Expert = someone with deep knowledge of a subject and makes qualified guesses (called theories) and they can still get it wrong...

I recall in the recent past Government "Experts" telling us to get diesel vehicles as they were more efficient...! :wave:
As I've said before, a genius is someone who doesn't make the same mistake ONCE.

However, again you shoot yourself in the foot whilst trying to prove your point. The "experts" maintained - correctly - that diesel cars emitted less Sulphur Dioxide, which was the issue raised by the government at the time. However, I also recall "experts" at the time raising the issue of particulates - but nobody was interested.... "only easy answers need apply". So, the answer given depends upon the question asked..... and the questions are not asked by "experts". Then their replies are taken by the media and boiled down to a headline (because all those caveats are just boring :roll: ) and implemented by a government that wants to get itself out of an immediate hole ASAP. Result - predictable.

The issue of climate change - as you keep pointing out - was first spoken of as another "big freeze", because the wrong question was asked. The concept of "Global warming" is equally misunderstood. The climate is a complex beast - a change in overall temperature can affect weather patterns and result in all sorts of climactic issues, from once-in-a-lifetime freezes that happen with unusual frequency, or once-in-a lifetime flooding, that happens twice in a decade or once-in-a-lifetime droughts, etc., etc. and, it is undeniable that the overall temperature is increasing, it can be measured. All these issues are caused by the same basic mechanism - but it's all too complex for the headlines (and those who react to them) to understand, so they call it "Global Warming" ..... and then point out how it's getting colder. :shifty:

They say that a little learning is a dangerous thing - and the rise of the internet has given easier access to information that people are not necessarily able to understand - and, in parallel, it has given those who either misunderstand, or deny the evidence, the ability to spread their misinformation..... because "everyone's an expert now".

So, ask yourself - if that's true, are you happy for a plumber to operate on you, because he can see anatomy sites online??
So what do you see as the problematic issue; CO2...???

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Re: I'm surprised Boro Boy has not complained about this yet

Post by macliam » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:27 am

CO2 is one issue - and since vegetation cleans CO2 from the atmosphere, cutting down forests and building bigger cities doesn't help. Then there's methane, the famous cow fart problem.... and many, many others that we produce for the same, basic reason - there are just too goddamn many of us, we are the fleas killing the host. So, when you add on to that the pollution we are causing by inefficiently burning finite fossil fuels, we're on a one-way trip to nowhere.

I'm no environmentalist and I'm no expert - heck, I don't even know if we can actually do anything to help now...... but I do think we could at least try not to do the things we know are harmful and slow things down - a bit like me giving up smoking, 30 years ago I smoked 30 a day.... I don't think I'd still be here if I'd continued!!. Plus we can turn our heads to finding better ways to do things...... because we're smart, we can do great things - but we can also be self-destructive and lazy - and, a worse crime in my book, shortsighted.

We need power and we need heat - and we have a bloody huge fiery ball up there in the sky that has been powering things on earth for millennia. We just aren't very good yet at harnessing it yet and we've got used to doing things the naughty way - so we're building nasty batteries, when fuel-cells are likely the real answer - but they're better than burning fossil fuels and they might buy us the time to move on to step 2. It's early days, we need patience - but if we don't try, we won't get.

If I had a magic wand, I'd like to see the vision in my crystal-ball become reality - solar mirror arrays cracking water into hydrogen and oxygen, solar power providing energy to cool the hydrogen to liquid form; safe ways to transport, distribute and store it and catalytic fuel-cells running on it to produce our power - the hydrogen combining with atmospheric oxygen to reform as water. It's the kind of cycle nature loves and what we would be doing is to release the potential stored when we used the sun in the cracking plant.

There may (and probably will) be other, better, answers, but we have to get there. No cars existed 150 years ago, imagine where we could be in 150 years time - if we survive.
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Re: I'm surprised Boro Boy has not complained about this yet

Post by expressman33 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:02 am

macliam wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:27 am
imagine where we could be in 150 years time - if we survive.
We need to stop the Hadron Collider
Can the hadron collider create a black hole?
First of all, yes, it is true that the LHC might create microscopic black holes

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Re: I'm surprised Boro Boy has not complained about this yet

Post by Boro Boy » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:14 am

Well that involvement of CO2 in Climate Change is challenged and contradicted as not a cause but a symptom of climate change by "Experts" as well, see: http://weatheraction.com

I think the reality is the Earth is just as complex (if not more so than) the human body and that there are so many influences; so to smash into peoples lives with their guesses, as these green warriors do, is just "self indulgent" patronising, blindered and closed minded. That wouldn't be so bad if they didn't keep stuffing it down peoples throats. The complexity is such that no-one ready knows the answers, they guess! It may be a qualified guess but none the less a guess that can be wrong as has proven in the past.

Whilst climate change is happening, I defy any one to tell me that this is something new! Climate change has been happening for millions and millions of years; we have had multiple ice ages and hot periods of time. Yes we need to stop polluting the world and the removal of plastics and fossil fuels will be a good thing but stop these green idealists stuffing there ideals, about the end of the world, down peoples throats - they could just as easily be wrong with their guesses as they greens in the 1970's who told us we were all causing the onset of the ice age!

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