Brexit Bounces too

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blythburgh
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Re: Brexit Bounces too

Post by blythburgh » Tue May 28, 2019 9:21 am

Boro Boy wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 9:18 am

Yes some people are dreamers and don't like dealing with reality... :wave:
I think that about all of your brexit posts
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fattulip74
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Re: Brexit Bounces too

Post by fattulip74 » Tue May 28, 2019 9:44 am

Boro Boy wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 9:01 am
fattulip74 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:37 am
I very much doubt that the Brexit party would get any more than 1 or 2 MP' s in a general election they would significantly change the winners of a lot of seats by taking bites off the big 2.
What i don't understand is all this adding Green/SNP/LinDen vote together to say remain won. Did London win the Premier League as West Ham, Spurs and Chelsea got more points combined than Man City?
Good point! I guess that's just a way of twisting the results to fit the remain requirements...! Remember; Lies, damned lies, and statistics....

One interesting point is that this EU vote was on a PR basis and the Brexit Party would have also have won most seats if it had been run on a first past the post basis. So don't listen to the statistics just deal with the reality and all will be ok. :thumbup:
The fact remains though that Brexit party would pick up far fewer percentage of votes in a general election as 1) The turn out would be far bigger and 2) most people are not obsessed by the EU and would base their vote on things that were more important to them. Health, the economy, education etc. All areas where Farage and his one trick pony bunch of rich head banger misfits don't have a single policy.

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Re: Brexit Bounces too

Post by pabenny » Tue May 28, 2019 9:49 am

Rather more fundamentally than trying to say "who won?" the question is where do we go from here?

The only things that Parliament has agreed are the things they don't want, namely No Deal and Theresa's Deal. At present, nothing else is on offer.

Numerous people are saying that they way forward is for everyone else to agree with them (across a whole spectrum from No Deal to Remain via a second vote). But I don't see anyone with a credible solution that can carry widespread parliamentary and popular support.

Anyone any realistic suggestions?

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Re: Brexit Bounces too

Post by Piojito » Tue May 28, 2019 9:55 am

What I think is most likely to happen...

Brexit supporting new PM for the Tories. They will go to the EU attempting to re-negotiate the deal. The EU won't alter their stance significantly. The PM states with no change in their position (the EU) then the UK will have to leave on a 'no deal' basis unless the EU radically changes the terms of the deal. As we near deadline day with lots of argument about leaving on a no deal basis a few Tories break ranks as they can't support the idea of a 'no deal' exit. Vote of no confidence in Parliament which the government loses leading to a General Election and Brexit delayed. Farage and his party stand across the country and a significant number of those who voted leave vote for his party changing the political landscape across the country - but hard to predict how...what happens after that is anyone's guess!

There is absolutely nothing undemocratic about having a confirmatory vote with a decision as profound and significant as Brexit is for the future of the country. It is likely Brexit would win again but at least with the knowledge the public NOW HAS with respect to the decision, noone would be able to argue that it was an uninformed choice. A second vote seems to me to be the most democratic solution to our current political impasse.
Last edited by Piojito on Tue May 28, 2019 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

fattulip74
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Re: Brexit Bounces too

Post by fattulip74 » Tue May 28, 2019 10:02 am

pabenny wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 9:49 am
Rather more fundamentally than trying to say "who won?" the question is where do we go from here?

The only things that Parliament has agreed are the things they don't want, namely No Deal and Theresa's Deal. At present, nothing else is on offer.

Numerous people are saying that they way forward is for everyone else to agree with them (across a whole spectrum from No Deal to Remain via a second vote). But I don't see anyone with a credible solution that can carry widespread parliamentary and popular support.

Anyone any realistic suggestions?
Thats the question and I for one don't know. Fence sitting for me i suppose.I personally want to remain as it's far better economically for the country but am of the belief that we have to honour the result of the last referendum but make it as painless as possible. As I say I want 2 completely different things at the same time, and I believe only JC for Labour is trying to see both sides of the argument, both hard remain and hard leave are the ones tearing the country apart.

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Re: Brexit Bounces too

Post by Piojito » Tue May 28, 2019 10:07 am

fattulip74 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 10:02 am

Thats the question and I for one don't know. Fence sitting for me i suppose.I personally want to remain as it's far better economically for the country but am of the belief that we have to honour the result of the last referendum but make it as painless as possible. As I say I want 2 completely different things at the same time, and I believe only JC for Labour is trying to see both sides of the argument, both hard remain and hard leave are the ones tearing the country apart.
Arguably, JC has no choice but to sit on the fence given his own public supporter base is split down the middle in both hard leave (North/Midlands) and hard remain (London) terms. It's why he wants that General Election as it means he doesn't have to choose a side and can argue at that election that he will negotiate a deal that satisfies both sides of the argument - something TM tried to do although he would probably keep far more of a link with the EU than she was proposing. However, he's still taking a chance with that position as the Brexit Party will take votes from Labour in certain locations and maybe the Libdems in other places.

William Joseph1
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Re: Brexit Bounces too

Post by William Joseph1 » Tue May 28, 2019 10:33 am

Whilst I see a general election as a way forward, I am not convinced it would get us anywhere. Farage and his one trick limited company bothers me. it is not a political party and has no method at the moment for replacing its leader. It has one policy and no manifesto. He does have a very popular vote at the moment and whilst I do not think the Euro results would be replicated in a general election. He does have the potential to do great damage. The reality is that if a general election was held tomorrow, I think that Parliament would still be hung and the arithmetic would not be very different from the way it is now. A lot will depend on who is elected as leader of the Tories and as I said before, which way they jump. For the moment it is a case of sit steady and see which way the land lies. I doubt the maybot will call an election, so at the end of the day it is down to a new PM and JC if he decides to call for a no confidence vote, which he will almost certainly lose.
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Re: Brexit Bounces too

Post by pabenny » Tue May 28, 2019 11:24 am

William Joseph1 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 10:33 am
... Farage and his one trick limited company bothers me. it is not a political party and has no method at the moment for replacing its leader. It has one policy and no manifesto.
For all the alleged lack of democracy of the EU, I note it is reported that the Brexit party has no democratic structures whatsoever.

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Re: Brexit Bounces too

Post by Chadwick » Tue May 28, 2019 2:00 pm

fattulip74 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:37 am
What i don't understand is all this adding Green/SNP/LinDen vote together to say remain won. Did London win the Premier League as West Ham, Spurs and Chelsea got more points combined than Man City?
If you want to view it that way, then yes, you could decide the 'best football city' in that way. But that's probably best discussed in the Sports forum, not here.

Going back to this thread's topic, adding up all the votes cast does give you an insight. As WJ said earlier, it wasn't a referendum, but it's the closest thing we have to one at the moment. Remember, none of these newly elected MEPs are going to take up their role (unless we delay Brexit again). So it is a largely symbolic vote.

I think it's valid to band together the votes for those who want a Hard Brexit (UKIP, Brexit Party), and those who want a 2nd referendum. However you look at it, there is no majority for a Hard/No Deal/Clean Brexit, which is the sole policy of the Brexit Party. They got a lot of support, but did not win, and they should accept that and get over it.
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Re: Brexit Bounces too

Post by expressman33 » Tue May 28, 2019 2:20 pm

Those that couldn't be bothered or were unable to vote won , 63% didn't vote
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