the most heartbreaking news item I have seen for a long time

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blythburgh
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the most heartbreaking news item I have seen for a long time

Post by blythburgh » Fri May 31, 2019 10:27 am

Painfull as the film of children and adults suffering in war zones are to see, what has hit me the hardest recently was a film of 2 British women.

The older lady has severe dementia. The daughter is her carer. For 2 days a week the Mother goes to a day centre. The daughter has time to shop, have her hair done, have some "me time". All the little things that mean the difference in surviving being a carer and ending up with a nervous breakdown.

Now their council has to make even more cuts and the day centre is to be closed. The lifeline for the daughter will no longer be there. The Mother could end up in care which the daughter obviously does not want and would be detrimental to her Mother as she will lose her familiar surroundings. The daughter could end up in hospital.

I do not blame the Council, they have to make cuts and the easy ones have been done. The reserves are fast being depleted. I feel for the Councillors and Council employees who have to make the cuts and decide who gets help and who is left to struggle alone.

And yesterday people were marching to demand educational support for their disabled child. Being a carer for a disabled child is draining physically, emotionally and mentally. To then have to fight to get the educational and other support that child needs.

And all because the Govt. is stopping the support they used to give to Councils.

I have been a carer for both my parents and helped 'im indoors care for his Mother and seen the burden that was for him. And that is why I was heartbroken to see the lady wondering how she would cope when the dementia day centre was closed.

Believe me being a carer makes being a parent of healthy children a walk in the park. And that walk is a difficult one for all parents. But being a carer to a disabled child or a sick parent is far, far harder.
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Re: the most heartbreaking news item I have seen for a long time

Post by AAAlphaThunder » Fri May 31, 2019 3:22 pm

With all the cutbacks threre just isn't enough money in the pot.
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Re: the most heartbreaking news item I have seen for a long time

Post by William Joseph1 » Fri May 31, 2019 3:36 pm

AAAlphaThunder wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 3:22 pm
With all the cutbacks threre just isn't enough money in the pot.
The cutbacks do not cause there to be not enough money in the pot. You may want to rephrase the rubbish you write. The government annonced recently that "Austerity is over" The public purse has never been as healthy as it is at the moment according to Hammond and Rory Stewart was saying the same thing on Question Time last night. It is just that this failed Conservative government chooses not to spend it. The amount of money being wasted on Brexit because of incompetence is mouthwatering.
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Re: the most heartbreaking news item I have seen for a long time

Post by macliam » Fri May 31, 2019 5:49 pm

William Joseph1 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 3:36 pm
AAAlphaThunder wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 3:22 pm
With all the cutbacks threre just isn't enough money in the pot.
The cutbacks do not cause there to be not enough money in the pot. You may want to rephrase the rubbish you write. The government annonced recently that "Austerity is over" The public purse has never been as healthy as it is at the moment according to Hammond and Rory Stewart was saying the same thing on Question Time last night. It is just that this failed Conservative government chooses not to spend it. The amount of money being wasted on Brexit because of incompetence is mouthwatering.
Odd how the money existed to bail out the bankers and to finance foreign adventures, but never seems to be there to help ordinary folk...... :think:
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Re: the most heartbreaking news item I have seen for a long time

Post by Constantine » Fri May 31, 2019 6:32 pm

macliam wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 5:49 pm

Odd how the money existed to bail out the bankers and to finance foreign adventures, but never seems to be there to help ordinary folk...... :think:
In 2015–16, the UK public sector spent £220.2 billion (2016–17 prices) on health, social care, and benefits to support people with disabilities and health conditions. This is equivalent to 11.5% of UK national income and 28.7% of total public spending. The majority, £140.6 billion (63.9%), of this was spent on health; £49.7 billion (22.5%) was spent on benefits and £29.9 billion (13.6%) was spent on social care.

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/8879

£30 billion quid a year is quite a lot of money, That quite dwarfs the one off cost of bailing out RBS, or indeed any 'foreign adventures'; although I'm not quite sure what that means,
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Re: the most heartbreaking news item I have seen for a long time

Post by macliam » Fri May 31, 2019 7:02 pm

Constantine wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 6:32 pm
macliam wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 5:49 pm

Odd how the money existed to bail out the bankers and to finance foreign adventures, but never seems to be there to help ordinary folk...... :think:
In 2015–16, the UK public sector spent £220.2 billion (2016–17 prices) on health, social care, and benefits to support people with disabilities and health conditions. This is equivalent to 11.5% of UK national income and 28.7% of total public spending. The majority, £140.6 billion (63.9%), of this was spent on health; £49.7 billion (22.5%) was spent on benefits and £29.9 billion (13.6%) was spent on social care.

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/8879

£30 billion quid a year is quite a lot of money, That quite dwarfs the one off cost of bailing out RBS, or indeed any 'foreign adventures'; although I'm not quite sure what that means,
I'd suggest you take another look....
"Total outstanding support as at 31 March 2018(£bn)
Guarantee commitments 14
Cash outlay 32
Total support 46"
(https://www.nao.org.uk/highlights/taxpa ... anks-faqs/)
This is after write-downs and repayments to date and does not include the interest accrued on tax-free loans guaranteed by the government or other associated costs. QE then injected further funding into the financial sector to the tune of £435bn and this "new money" effectively devalued the pensions and assets of all UK citizens.

The cost of UK air-strikes alone in Iraq and Syria from 204-2018 reached £1.75bn (https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/cost-br ... 5-billion/)
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Re: the most heartbreaking news item I have seen for a long time

Post by blythburgh » Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:55 am

I seems to me more right wing Tory thinking: cut the amount of money for Councils

Who suffers the most? The sick, the disabled, the elderly and their carers. And Councillors and Councillor workers end up stressed trying to spend £0.50 when the minimum they need for absolute necessities is £1

But for the rich Tory right wingers that is OK as they are sure only £0.50 is actually needed
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Re: the most heartbreaking news item I have seen for a long time

Post by Constantine » Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:14 pm

macliam wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 7:02 pm

I'd suggest you take another look....
"Total outstanding support as at 31 March 2018(£bn)
Guarantee commitments 14
Cash outlay 32
Total support 46"
(https://www.nao.org.uk/highlights/taxpa ... anks-faqs/)
This is after write-downs and repayments to date and does not include the interest accrued on tax-free loans guaranteed by the government or other associated costs.
Well, there you go, the £32 billion one off cost of bailing out RBS is quite dwarfed by the £30 billion a year being spent on social care. Thank you for taking the time and trouble to confirm I was correct.

Incidentally, what do you think the cost would have been had the Labour government decided not to bail them out, and let them go bankrupt?
macliam wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 7:02 pm
QE then injected further funding into the financial sector to the tune of £435bn and this "new money" effectively devalued the pensions and assets of all UK citizens.
QE involved the BoE in buying £435bn worth of gilts from financial institutions, who then spent the money buying replacement assets such as, err gilts. This would have increased the value of said assets, and increased the value of pensions.
macliam wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 7:02 pm
The cost of UK air-strikes alone in Iraq and Syria from 204-2018 reached £1.75bn (https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/cost-br ... 5-billion/)
£1.75bn over four years would be chump change compared to the £880 billion spent over the same period on health, social care, and benefits. And whereas you might regard "armed air missions against Islamic State in Iraq and Syria" as 'foreign adventures'. I regard them as a justifiable military response against the kind of organisation that makes the Nazis look like the kind of really nice people you would invite around to have tea with your mum.
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Re: the most heartbreaking news item I have seen for a long time

Post by Constantine » Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:18 pm

blythburgh wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:55 am
I seems to me more right wing Tory thinking: cut the amount of money for Councils

Who suffers the most? The sick, the disabled, the elderly and their carers. And Councillors and Councillor workers end up stressed trying to spend £0.50 when the minimum they need for absolute necessities is £1

But for the rich Tory right wingers that is OK as they are sure only £0.50 is actually needed
The 'right wing Tory' response to the deficit they faced in 2010, was exactly the same as the left wing Labour response to the deficit they faced in 1945. Namely, austerity. And there was a lot more of it in the 1940s, because there was more debt.

It's not a matter of politics; the arithmetic of debt is a harsh mistress.
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Re: the most heartbreaking news item I have seen for a long time

Post by macliam » Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:36 pm

Constantine wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:14 pm
macliam wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 7:02 pm

I'd suggest you take another look....
"Total outstanding support as at 31 March 2018(£bn)
Guarantee commitments 14
Cash outlay 32
Total support 46"
(https://www.nao.org.uk/highlights/taxpa ... anks-faqs/)
This is after write-downs and repayments to date and does not include the interest accrued on tax-free loans guaranteed by the government or other associated costs.
Well, there you go, the £32 billion one off cost of bailing out RBS is quite dwarfed by the £30 billion a year being spent on social care. Thank you for taking the time and trouble to confirm I was correct.

Incidentally, what do you think the cost would have been had the Labour government decided not to bail them out, and let them go bankrupt?
The £46bn, as I suspect you know well, is the amount STILL outstanding after all the write-offs and buy-backs, which usually involved the bankers recovering shares at a cost below that which was paid...... as again I suspect you know well. Please don't try to change the argument about the response to the crisis - my point was that this money WAS available when needed.
Constantine wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:14 pm
macliam wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 7:02 pm
QE then injected further funding into the financial sector to the tune of £435bn and this "new money" effectively devalued the pensions and assets of all UK citizens.
QE involved the BoE in buying £435bn worth of gilts from financial institutions, who then spent the money buying replacement assets such as, err gilts. This would have increased the value of said assets, and increased the value of pensions.
Tosh. So money just "appears" does it? Printing money has no effect on the economy? I suggest you advise the chancellor immediately! QE had the effect of suppressing interest rates, which have both devalued the assets of savers and caused issues for pension funds. It was good for the city though - a nice transfer of wealth from the public to the City.
Constantine wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:14 pm
macliam wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 7:02 pm
The cost of UK air-strikes alone in Iraq and Syria from 204-2018 reached £1.75bn (https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/cost-br ... 5-billion/)
£1.75bn over four years would be chump change compared to the £880 billion spent over the same period on health, social care, and benefits. And whereas you might regard "armed air missions against Islamic State in Iraq and Syria" as 'foreign adventures'. I regard them as a justifiable military response against the kind of organisation that makes the Nazis look like the kind of really nice people you would invite around to have tea with your mum.
Taxes and Social Security contributions are paid precisely to fund the benefits that you appear to take issue with.... so what's the problem? Again, you attempt to make an "either/or" argument out of my assertion that the government can find money when it wants to.... The air support provided in Iraq and Syria were marginal to the eventual outcome against an enemy created by previous foreign adventures.... or do you regard the situation in the Middle-East and Libya evidence of a job well done?
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