Brexit Bounces too

Topical debate, moral dilemmas and quirky questions. Join fellow shareholders in civilised discussions of issues of interest
Chadwick
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Re: Brexit Bounces too

Post by Chadwick » Thu Jun 27 2019 3:04pm

Boro Boy wrote:
Thu Jun 27 2019 9:17am
thousands of fishermen all around our coast, etc. who (not possibility - actually) have already lost their jobs because Brexit did not happen soon enough...! Or are you just callous...!?! :wave:
Can we end the fishing red herring (pun intended) please.

The allocation of UK fishing quotas to actual fishermen is entirely a matter for the British government. Brexit will not change this.
We - the British - have sold our fishing quotas to mainly Dutch, Spanish and Icelandic interests. This was not forced upon us by the EU. Brexit will not change this. You will recall that Iceland is not a member of the EU.

The state of our fishing industry is entirely our own responsibility, not the EU.
If you want to blame the EU, you could look to the EU Fisheries Committee, where we were represented by Nigel Farage.
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Chadwick
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Re: Brexit Bounces too

Post by Chadwick » Thu Jun 27 2019 3:14pm

Boro Boy wrote:
Wed Jun 26 2019 11:09pm
Here's another one you can treat as a joke... BMW pledges loyalty to the UK: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/new ... mpact.html :wave:
Boro Boy wrote:
Wed Jun 26 2019 4:40pm
You remainers make me laugh soooo much!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: "Oh leaving the EU will mean we loose all the car manufactures" Then when one of the frightened German car manufactures pledges its future in the UK and guess what? Freedom from the domination of the EU and still keeping the car manufactures on our side isn't good enough... I'm still laughing... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Again, read the article you linked.
German manufacturing generally is down. The article does not suggest Brexit is the cause of this.
BMW see their investment in the UK as worth maintaining - we are their 4th largest market.
They are spending extra time and money to protect against the impact of Brexit, and remain in the same position.
Maybe they will swallow the extra cost in their existing profits. Maybe they will cut costs in the UK (jobs?) to balance it. Maybe they will increase the price of their cars to recover it.
If we were not leaving the EU, they would not have to do any of this.
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pabenny
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Re: Brexit Bounces too

Post by pabenny » Thu Jun 27 2019 4:18pm

It’s also a mistake to think of BMW as a German manufacturer supplying into the UK – they export roughly as many Mini (and Rolls-Royce) around the world as they import BMW into the UK. The BMW-branded cars we buy are assembled all over the world – for example the current X3 has never been made in Germany and if you buy the current model, it will come from South Africa.
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pabenny
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Re: Brexit Bounces too

Post by pabenny » Thu Jun 27 2019 4:21pm

And the future of the Astra at Ellesmere Port is dependent on "a commitment to frictionless trade after Brexit, and no-deal is not an option" (quote from news item below)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... e-48790657
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Re: Brexit Bounces too

Post by Boro Boy » Mon Jul 01 2019 9:02pm

Sarah wrote:
Thu Jun 27 2019 5:07am
Your callous and uninformed comments are an insult to those whose jobs and livelihoods have already been lost or placed at risk. If you haven't yet been adversely affected by the impact of the EU referendum vote then good for you; too bad you're unable to see what's actually happening to the UK.
I accept that very few arguments are 100% watertight and that each side of the argument has an element that cannot be disputed but that doesn't make any one argument 100% correct! So howling down any argument as absurd or totally wrong is also equally wrong. I don't thing you are correct but I listen.

I accept that members can have different views but these are the sort of confrontation comments spouted by the above member in the manner of "everyone who doesn't agree is wrong", takes no consideration of the jobs lost because we are in the EU and I find personally insulting.

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Re: Brexit Bounces too

Post by Sarah » Tue Jul 02 2019 3:28am

Really - personally lost your job because of EU membership have you? I sympathise if that's the case yet doubt it; perhaps you've somehow forgotten what you previously wrote immediately prior to that response, literally laughing in the faces of anyone concerned for the UK car industry and the workers facing imminent job losses.

I do have family members in the automotive industry and steel industry that are affected and they're certainly adversely impacted by Brexit and not in any way going to be helped by it. I personally know plenty of others that have already lost their jobs or had them placed at risk and recruitment being slashed as jobs and investment have left the UK as a direct result of the referendum result. The costs to my own employer are in £millions which has obviously had an impact at many levels.

These things are happening regardless of what you believe; opinions make no difference. Cognitive dissonance on the leave side doesn't avert the ongoing catastrophe. Brexit isn't suddenly going to stop being a disaster by ignoring the evidence. The fishing industry that you like to talk about so much, despite being such a tiny part of the economy, effectively voted for its own destruction and together with farming is now said to need a £6bn bail-out if we leave the EU.

The hard-right millionaires and billionaires have always been the ones that could benefit from this tragedy. The rot has been there all along, right from the start of drawing up the European Union Referendum Act 2015 in which they insisted a majority of nations or super-majority of voters wasn't necessary because it was only advisory so the government of the day should take any such imbalances into account when deciding the way forward. How soon that was forgotten with both Scotland and Northern Ireland carelessly thrown under the bus. The same act of course also obligated the government to negotiate a withdrawal agreement. Now the same charlatans are busy trying to rewrite history and persuade the misled voters that the last resort, worst case and most damaging ("no deal") exit is what they wanted. Hardly any lessons have been learned over the past 3 years despite the lies being so exposed. It would be utterly insane to proceed.

Chadwick
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Re: Brexit Bounces too

Post by Chadwick » Tue Jul 02 2019 7:31am

Boro Boy wrote:
Mon Jul 01 2019 9:02pm
the jobs lost because we are in the EU
You seem to be labouring under the illusion that exiting the EU will bring these jobs back. It will not.

The British steel industry, for example, is just too expensive compared to Chinese and other imports. Leaving the EU won't change that.

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Re: Brexit Bounces too

Post by pabenny » Tue Jul 02 2019 9:50am

Chadwick wrote:
Tue Jul 02 2019 7:31am
Boro Boy wrote:
Mon Jul 01 2019 9:02pm
the jobs lost because we are in the EU
You seem to be labouring under the illusion that exiting the EU will bring these jobs back. It will not.
And to press the point home, we are losing automotive (and financial services) jobs as a result of leaving the EU.
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Re: Brexit Bounces too

Post by blythburgh » Tue Jul 02 2019 9:52am

Boro Boy wrote:
Mon Jul 01 2019 9:02pm
the jobs lost because we are in the EU
Like the fishing industry jobs lost because we are in the EU?

Do we blame the EU or the owners who sold their quota?

Interestingly the local woman who is in the fish wholesale business and is now a Brexit MEP. She is under the false impression that once we leave the boats and the fishermen will return to the port.

Interesting 2 hour programme on Channel 5 last night. 3 Celebs went out on a trawler to areas north of the The Orkney and The Shetland Islands. Crew was 3 celebs (I am assuming 3 men took a well earned holiday paid for by the TV programme makers) 3 Scots (missed the start but it was a Scottish boat) and 3 Philipinos.

When we had a deep sea fishing fleet every man was British and almost everyone if not everyone was a local.

So if we are to ban immigration where are the fishermen to come from.

Another interesting bit was how Rugby player Ben Cohen found gutting the live fish so hard. They were alive and at times looked you in the eye. Wonder if any pescatarian were watching. They usually give up meat because of the assumed suffering of the animals and the need to kill them. Always found them odd. Can understand vegetarians and vegans but can never understand pescatarians.

Sorry off topic, so let the next poster return to the pointless discussion. Pointless because one poster is blind to reason and factual argument.
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Re: Brexit Bounces too

Post by blythburgh » Tue Jul 02 2019 10:22am

Currently reading John Major's biography and just went back to it for this: In a speech to the Tory Party Conference the day after Thatcher and Tebbit had stuck very large knifes into him over the Matricht Treaty that Parliament with hardly any dissenters had loudly endorsed. Then the Thatcher led anti EU group suddenly did an about turn and instead of loving it, hated it. "I am reminded of Don Quixote, he saw things that were not there"

Remind others of a poster on here?

As a Labour MP said on the radio on Sunday. 75% of my postbag is about Brexit and they all want a no deal Brexit. They simply have no idea on the terrible outcome of that on their jobs and what they buy.

Too many people here the hard right say it will be fine is we have a no deal exit and believe without realising what that will mean to them. OK for the hard right trumpeting it will be fine, they are so rich they will not notice any increase in spending. The rest of us will.
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