Topical debate, moral dilemmas and quirky questions. Join fellow shareholders in civilised discussions of issues of interest
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Sarah
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by Sarah » Thu Sep 05 2019 7:58am
Tony Blair was right; the offer of a General Election before 1 November was a trap and Jeremy Corbyn probably had his best parliamentary day yesterday by avoiding it. Yet this morning it seems he apparently traded that advantage away by swapping support for a rerun on Monday in return for curtailment of the filibustering. So perhaps he's not really that smart or committed after all? On the other hand, there's still time for more to change...!
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blythburgh
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by blythburgh » Thu Sep 05 2019 8:16am
Not sure how committed to a People's Vote Corbyn is.
Interestingly some random Radio 4 Today programme interviews with people who always voted Labour in Grimsby one person said they would not vote Labour as they knew where the LIbDems stood but were unsure where Labour stood. So I am not the only one.
Keep smiling because the light at the end of someone's tunnel may be you, Ron Cheneler
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pabenny
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by pabenny » Thu Sep 05 2019 8:44am
Boro Boy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 04 2019 11:18pm
kevinchess1 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 04 2019 10:25pm
...We have the surreal situation of the Party in power want a GE and the party in Opposition disagreeing
WT actual F?
The word is probably hypocrites...!
To be fair to him, Mr Corbyn did say in the House yesterday that he would support a general election once No Deal was dead.
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blythburgh
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by blythburgh » Thu Sep 05 2019 9:34am
How can Labour trust the known liars, Johnson and Cummings to stick to any promises they make?
Keep smiling because the light at the end of someone's tunnel may be you, Ron Cheneler
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Boro Boy
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by Boro Boy » Thu Sep 05 2019 10:08am
blythburgh wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05 2019 9:34am
How can Labour trust the known liars, Johnson and Cummings to stick to any promises they make?
But how can the Conservatives trust the known liars, Corbyn and McDonnell to stick to any promises they make?
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pabenny
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by pabenny » Thu Sep 05 2019 12:08pm
Clever. But we've seen one of Mr Johnson's lies or misstatements reproduced in this thread (about proroguing Parliament), there's his claim that the odds of no deal are a million to one against (when he then goes on to advocate it) and the infamous £350m bus.
Any comparable lies you could attribute to Mr Corbyn?
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Chadwick
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by Chadwick » Thu Sep 05 2019 2:23pm
I'm sure there was a time when leaving the EU meant negotiating a withdrawal that allowed us time to adapt to the new realities, and perhaps not move too far away from where we ultimately wanted to end up. It wasn't a fight with the EU.
Perhaps it went wrong when we had no idea where we wanted to end up, so had no idea what we were trying to achieve in the withdrawal agreement.
And because our government couldn't admit that it had picked a fight with itself and lost, the bogeyman of the EU was created to take the blame instead.
All this shenanigans (a word used by both remain and leave supporters) is gradually moving further and further away from the actual issue. We're now talking about 'surrender' to someone who isn't fighting with us, and votes are described as 'pro-government'. We are slowly creating a civil war.
The only sensible way forward is to revoke article 50, and work out what our relationship with the EU should be when we leave. Then, and only then, can we work out how to get there. Maybe it's in our best interests to have a Norwayesque deal, or a Canadaish or some other variant. But how about we work that out first, before we hit the negotiating table again?
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Derbiean
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by Derbiean » Thu Sep 05 2019 3:01pm
Boro Boy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05 2019 10:08am
blythburgh wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05 2019 9:34am
How can Labour trust the known liars, Johnson and Cummings to stick to any promises they make?
But how can the Conservatives trust the known liars, Corbyn and McDonnell to stick to any promises they make?
Alternative facts huh.
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pabenny
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by pabenny » Thu Sep 05 2019 3:06pm
Chadwick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05 2019 2:23pm
The only sensible way forward is to revoke article 50, and work out what our relationship with the EU should be when we leave. Then, and only then, can we work out how to get there. Maybe it's in our best interests to have a Norwayesque deal, or a Canadaish or some other variant. But how about we work that out first, before we hit the negotiating table again?
A pause like this would be portrayed in wholly negative terms by the Leave side.
Remainers have, for the most part, accepted the referendum vote and gone along with it - notably Theresa May, who voted Remain but did everything in her power to get a workable exit. Yes, of course there were some who continued to bang the drum for Remain - and they got the (smaller) headlines - while it didn't get reported that many Remain supporters did in fact vote for the Withdrawal Bill.
On the other hand, the Leavers have become more and more strident, more and more extreme in their demands, more and more divisive of the country. It is they who have created civil war in the Conservative Party. It is they who have poisoned politics. It is they who are responsible for the present crisis.
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BeautifulSunshine
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by BeautifulSunshine » Thu Sep 05 2019 4:40pm
Chadwick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05 2019 2:23pm
I'm sure there was a time when leaving the EU meant negotiating a withdrawal that allowed us time to adapt to the new realities, and perhaps not move too far away from where we ultimately wanted to end up. It wasn't a fight with the EU.
Perhaps it went wrong when we had no idea where we wanted to end up, so had no idea what we were trying to achieve in the withdrawal agreement.
And because our government couldn't admit that it had picked a fight with itself and lost, the bogeyman of the EU was created to take the blame instead.
All this shenanigans (a word used by both remain and leave supporters) is gradually moving further and further away from the actual issue. We're now talking about 'surrender' to someone who isn't fighting with us, and votes are described as 'pro-government'. We are slowly creating a civil war.
The only sensible way forward is to revoke article 50, and work out what our relationship with the EU should be when we leave. Then, and only then, can we work out how to get there. Maybe it's in our best interests to have a Norwayesque deal, or a Canadaish or some other variant. But how about we work that out first, before we hit the negotiating table again?
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