Citizen Khan pushes ahead with the plan to shoot himself in the foot

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Re: Citizen Khan pushes ahead with the plan to shoot himself in the foot

Post by pabenny » Fri Sep 13 2019 7:28am

Boro Boy wrote:
Thu Sep 12 2019 9:28pm
Decreasing the average speed of traffic makes their engines less efficient and more dirty;
Slower average traffic speeds are correlated with lower efficiency but that doesn't mean that lower speeds cause the lower efficiency.

Vehicle engines are most efficient when running at constant speed (and the efficiency does with speed). Low average speeds in urban areas are most commonly the result of stop-start driving due to junctions, congestion, etc.

I don't know whether a 20 mph speed limit will increase or decrease pollution.

But the stated rationale is to address road traffic fatalities and injuries - surely a worthy aim.
Do you have any better suggestions? Or do you just not care about death and injury on the roads?
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Re: Citizen Khan pushes ahead with the plan to shoot himself in the foot

Post by Boro Boy » Fri Sep 13 2019 8:54am

pabenny wrote:
Fri Sep 13 2019 7:28am
Boro Boy wrote:
Thu Sep 12 2019 9:28pm
Decreasing the average speed of traffic makes their engines less efficient and more dirty;
Slower average traffic speeds are correlated with lower efficiency but that doesn't mean that lower speeds cause the lower efficiency.

Vehicle engines are most efficient when running at constant speed (and the efficiency does with speed). Low average speeds in urban areas are most commonly the result of stop-start driving due to junctions, congestion, etc.

I don't know whether a 20 mph speed limit will increase or decrease pollution.

But the stated rationale is to address road traffic fatalities and injuries - surely a worthy aim.
Do you have any better suggestions? Or do you just not care about death and injury on the roads?
An engineer friend told me that most car combustion engines have design for optimum use at a speed that would result in the car travelling at about 50 mph or slightly higher (metric etc) one of the tests for "dirty running" apparently is at an engine speed that would be expected to produce a road speed of 30 mph.

I guess everything will have to change the match The Mayors bright new world... Decreasing engine efficiency may reduce road deaths but will definitely increase pollution and it's associated problems. Lowering the speed limits will also have an effect of lowering average speeds and increasing car pollution. Better that the law is enforced on cars/vans parked but leaving their engines running. I have a taxi rank not far from me and diesel taxis do this all the time...

I do care about death and injury on the roads, make it law that cyclist use the designated paths where available and fine them heavily when the blatantly jump red traffic lights. That would reduce traffic deaths on the roads in an instant! Do you not care about cyclist deaths I thought you would have suggested this ahead of myself?
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Re: Citizen Khan pushes ahead with the plan to shoot himself in the foot

Post by blythburgh » Fri Sep 13 2019 10:21am

In Norwich they had some new cycle lanes and many refused to use them.
Keep smiling because the light at the end of someone's tunnel may be you, Ron Cheneler

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Re: Citizen Khan pushes ahead with the plan to shoot himself in the foot

Post by pabenny » Fri Sep 13 2019 12:31pm

Boro Boy wrote:
Fri Sep 13 2019 8:54am
An engineer friend told me that most car combustion engines have design for optimum use at a speed that would result in the car travelling at about 50 mph or slightly higher (metric etc) one of the tests for "dirty running" apparently is at an engine speed that would be expected to produce a road speed of 30 mph.
That's consistent with what I said about constant speed. It doesn't speak to the stop-start duty cycles that are a feature of urban driving. Are you aware of any evidence on emissions from urban traffic with a different maximum speeds?

Agree entirely with your comment about stationary vehicles with engines running being a bad thing - although afaik, that's not currently unlawful.

As for cyclists - yes, ignoring red lights is foolish. Whether enforcement action against offenders is practicable is another matter. Whether it would reduce fatalities is even more debatable.

There were 102 cyclists killed on the roads in 2016 in the UK (the most recent data I found) out of a total of 1,800 deaths on the roads. The report doesn't identify an 'at fault' party but clearly in any collision between a cyclist and a motor vehicle, the cyclist will come off worse.

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Re: Citizen Khan pushes ahead with the plan to shoot himself in the foot

Post by Boro Boy » Sat Sep 14 2019 1:15am

All the answers why Labour are doing what they are doing with Transport may be here: https://www.petrolprices.com/news/priva ... hink-tank/

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Re: Citizen Khan pushes ahead with the plan to shoot himself in the foot

Post by pabenny » Sat Sep 14 2019 8:09am

Boro Boy wrote:
Sat Sep 14 2019 1:15am
All the answers why Labour are doing what they are doing with Transport may be here:
They may be there. Bur almost certainly aren't.

Those behind this report may support the currently Labour leadership but it's twisting the facts* out of recognition to suggest that it's anywhere near being party policy.

(* I thought you were against twisting of facts)
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Re: Citizen Khan pushes ahead with the plan to shoot himself in the foot

Post by Boro Boy » Sat Sep 14 2019 12:52pm

pabenny wrote:
Sat Sep 14 2019 8:09am
Boro Boy wrote:
Sat Sep 14 2019 1:15am
All the answers why Labour are doing what they are doing with Transport may be here:
They may be there. Bur almost certainly aren't.

Those behind this report may support the currently Labour leadership but it's twisting the facts* out of recognition to suggest that it's anywhere near being party policy.

(* I thought you were against twisting of facts)
Then read it again: https://www.petrolprices.com/news/priva ... hink-tank/ this is the advice the Labour leadership are getting and they may be listening... :wtf:

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Re: Citizen Khan pushes ahead with the plan to shoot himself in the foot

Post by Richard Frost » Sat Sep 14 2019 1:38pm

The Labour leadership do not make policy or indeed decide on the Manifesto. Which is partly to do with the problem they are having at the moment. Policy is decided by members at the Party Conference and interpreted by the leadership. The manifesto is produced by a working party of the conference.
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Re: Citizen Khan pushes ahead with the plan to shoot himself in the foot

Post by Boro Boy » Sat Sep 14 2019 4:21pm

William Joseph1 wrote:
Sat Sep 14 2019 1:38pm
The Labour leadership do not make policy or indeed decide on the Manifesto. Which is partly to do with the problem they are having at the moment. Policy is decided by members at the Party Conference and interpreted by the leadership. The manifesto is produced by a working party of the conference.
So what you are saying is, when someone votes for the Labour Party they are voting for a manifesto and a puppet leader who may or may not carry it out.

Meanwhile the leaders chosen advisors seem to be saying that a remedy to some ills is to do away with all private vehicles... :think:

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Re: Citizen Khan pushes ahead with the plan to shoot himself in the foot

Post by pabenny » Sat Sep 14 2019 4:27pm

Boro Boy wrote:
Sat Sep 14 2019 12:52pm
Then read it again: https://www.petrolprices.com/news/priva ... hink-tank/ this is the advice the Labour leadership are getting and they may be listening...
Just did read it again. It says the report was written by "radical left-wing pro-Corbyn supporting think tank" but nothing at all to suggest that the Labour leadership - or Conference are taking on board this position.

Just because I support Anthony Blyth*, it doesn't mean that the Monster Raving Loony Party will take any notice of my report advocating higher taxes on grey cars because they're boring.
it's [still] twisting the facts* out of recognition to suggest that [this report] anywhere near being party policy.


(* current leader of the MRLP. I actually have no opinion about Mr Blyth.)
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