Brexit

Topical debate, moral dilemmas and quirky questions. Join fellow shareholders in civilised discussions of issues of interest
sanity clause
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Re: Brexit

Post by sanity clause » Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:36 pm

expressman33 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:17 pm
Seen on Facebook - another reason why we should leave the EU
Dear Secretary of State,

My friend, who is in farming at the moment, recently received a cheque for €3,000 from the European Union for not rearing pigs. I would now like to join the "not rearing pigs" business.

In your opinion, what is the best kind of farm not to rear pigs on, and which is the best breed of pigs not to rear? I want to be sure I approach this endeavour in keeping with all government policies, as dictated by the EU under the Common Agricultural Policy.

I would prefer not to rear bacon pigs, but if this is not the type you want not rearing, I will just as gladly not rear porkers. Are there any advantages in not rearing rare breeds such as Saddlebacks or Gloucester Old Spots, or are there too many people already not rearing these?

As I see it, the hardest part of this programme will be keeping an accurate record of how many pigs I haven't reared. Are there any Government or Local Authority courses on this?

My friend is very satisfied with this business. He has been rearing pigs for forty years or so, and the best he ever made on them was €1,422 in 2012. That is - until this year, when he received a cheque for not rearing any.

If I get €3,000 for not rearing 50 pigs, will I get €6,000 for not rearing 100? I plan to operate on a small scale at first, holding myself down to about 4,000 pigs not raised, which will mean about €240,000 for the first year. As I become more expert in not rearing pigs, I plan to be more ambitious, perhaps increasing to, say, 40,000 pigs not reared in my second year, for which I should expect about €2.4 million from your department. Incidentally, I wonder if I would be eligible to receive tradable carbon credits for all these pigs not producing harmful and polluting methane gases?

Another point: These pigs that I plan not to rear will not eat 2,000 tonnes of cereals. I understand that you also pay farmers for not growing crops. Will I qualify for payments for not growing cereals to not feed the pigs I don't rear?

I am also considering the "not milking cows" business, so please send any information you have on that too. Please could you also include the current Defra advice on set aside fields? Can this be done on an e-commerce basis with virtual fields (of which I seem to have several thousand hectares)?

In view of the above you will realise that I will be totally unemployed, and will therefore qualify for unemployment benefits.
You really want to believe this garbage, don't you?

This is a spoof letter.
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parchedpeas
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Re: Brexit

Post by parchedpeas » Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:40 pm

expressman33 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:17 pm
Seen on Facebook - another reason why we should leave the EU

...
So what you mean is - in short - the EU subsidise UK farming.

And that is bad why? Totally free trade in agriculture will destroy British farming. As the farmers here themselves say.

https://www.nfuonline.com/news/latest-n ... h-farming/

So what's your point?

William Joseph1
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Re: Brexit

Post by William Joseph1 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:51 pm

expressman33 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:17 pm
Seen on Facebook - another reason why we should leave the EU
Dear Secretary of State,

My friend, who is in farming at the moment, recently received a cheque for €3,000 from the European Union for not rearing pigs. I would now like to join the "not rearing pigs" business.

In your opinion, what is the best kind of farm not to rear pigs on, and which is the best breed of pigs not to rear? I want to be sure I approach this endeavour in keeping with all government policies, as dictated by the EU under the Common Agricultural Policy.

I would prefer not to rear bacon pigs, but if this is not the type you want not rearing, I will just as gladly not rear porkers. Are there any advantages in not rearing rare breeds such as Saddlebacks or Gloucester Old Spots, or are there too many people already not rearing these?

As I see it, the hardest part of this programme will be keeping an accurate record of how many pigs I haven't reared. Are there any Government or Local Authority courses on this?

My friend is very satisfied with this business. He has been rearing pigs for forty years or so, and the best he ever made on them was €1,422 in 2012. That is - until this year, when he received a cheque for not rearing any.

If I get €3,000 for not rearing 50 pigs, will I get €6,000 for not rearing 100? I plan to operate on a small scale at first, holding myself down to about 4,000 pigs not raised, which will mean about €240,000 for the first year. As I become more expert in not rearing pigs, I plan to be more ambitious, perhaps increasing to, say, 40,000 pigs not reared in my second year, for which I should expect about €2.4 million from your department. Incidentally, I wonder if I would be eligible to receive tradable carbon credits for all these pigs not producing harmful and polluting methane gases?

Another point: These pigs that I plan not to rear will not eat 2,000 tonnes of cereals. I understand that you also pay farmers for not growing crops. Will I qualify for payments for not growing cereals to not feed the pigs I don't rear?

I am also considering the "not milking cows" business, so please send any information you have on that too. Please could you also include the current Defra advice on set aside fields? Can this be done on an e-commerce basis with virtual fields (of which I seem to have several thousand hectares)?

In view of the above you will realise that I will be totally unemployed, and will therefore qualify for unemployment benefits.
You do no good to your cause, but just highlight your own prejudices and gullibility.
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Sarah
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Re: Brexit

Post by Sarah » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:06 pm

Perhaps the point is to leave the EU so that such junk stops appearing on Facebook?

That won't happen. The now ubiquitous slogan "Get Brexit Done" just means moving on to the next decades of wrangling from an even weaker position, not anything like an end.

Constantine
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Re: Brexit

Post by Constantine » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:22 pm

parchedpeas wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:40 pm

So what you mean is - in short - the EU subsidise UK farming.

And that is bad why? Totally free trade in agriculture will destroy British farming. As the farmers here themselves say.

https://www.nfuonline.com/news/latest-n ... h-farming/

So what's your point?
Free trade was the bastion of British liberalism in the 19thC and 20thC. It did indeed have a significant impact on British farming towards the end of the 19thC with the arrival of refrigerated ships - incidentally a significant factor in the decline of the aristocracy due to the collapse in agricultural rents.
But very much regarded as a 'good thing' by the Liberal and emerging Labour parties, because it meant cheaper food for the working man.

The question would be this; if you believe 'free trade' to be such a 'bad thing', how can you advocate membership of the EU and its single market which inherently promotes free trade?
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expressman33
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Re: Brexit

Post by expressman33 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:40 pm

William Joseph1 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:51 pm

You do no good to your cause, but just highlight your own prejudices and gullibility.
I know it's a spoof letter but there is some truth in it . So explain why is it good to be paid subsidies not to produce something ?
The EU’s common agricultural policy is a big waste of money.
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parchedpeas
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Re: Brexit

Post by parchedpeas » Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:01 pm

Constantine wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:22 pm
The question would be this; if you believe 'free trade' to be such a 'bad thing', how can you advocate membership of the EU and its single market which inherently promotes free trade?
Well let's start by saying it's no longer the 19th Century. Farming is not a labour industry any more, it's a technology industry. The worker at the bottom does not and will not have the capital required to gain access to the technologies of the US mega-farms. Globalisation has changed everything, this is no longer a battle between serfs and landlords in the same country, this is a battle played out across the world by different sets of rules. Has our reliance on China to be our workshop worked? We now look to them to kill their carbon emissions and they flick the Vs to us. So the only way to get the message across is via tariffs / quotas and regulations. The same applies in farming. US Beef is cheaper than UK Beef, but is grown to standards that could potentially have longer term consequences for humans - antibiotics in US farming are rife, more regulated in the EU. So imports have to play by the rules - that's trade restrictions.

There is a place for free-trade, but it cannot be unfettered - competition needs to be regulated and, if legacy industries are to be retired then there must be contingencies in place for both the workers in this country and for the event that our importing country changes their standards so as not to be acceptable to us.

Being in a wealthy trading block, with the power of 500m consumers, gives us weight in this regard. If it means that, for food security, we need to subsidise our own food production (thus also reducing our food miles and our carbon footbprint) then that's no bad thing. It's protectionism, yes. But that's because unfettered free trade is not necessarily the best model for the 21st Century, especially when the external costs on things such as health and the environment are unknowable and never priced into the production.

parchedpeas
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Re: Brexit

Post by parchedpeas » Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:08 pm

expressman33 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:40 pm
William Joseph1 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:51 pm

You do no good to your cause, but just highlight your own prejudices and gullibility.
I know it's a spoof letter but there is some truth in it . So explain why is it good to be paid subsidies not to produce something ?
The EU’s common agricultural policy is a big waste of money.
Should busses only run when there's people on them?
Should hospitals only open when people are sick?
How about air travel? Massive subsidies for them to fly empty planes all around the world.

We subsidise loads of things that you don't moan about. The EU tries to protect the price of some of its outputs so that the industry is sustainable for those who work in it. Sometimes it is cheaper to pay farmers to grow nothing than it would be for them to grow something and then the EU have to cope with the knock on effect of a glut / price crash.

We do it all over the place in reverse - punitive prices to reduce consumption on booze, fags, fuel. These are incentives to reduce production, so that the market can be managed more effectively and remain sustainable.

Next time you phone for a taxi, do you expect the Taxi driver to answer his phone from his bed and then start to get dressed and say he's on his way? Or do you expect him to price some of his waiting around time into the price you pay when you need him?
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William Joseph1
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Re: Brexit

Post by William Joseph1 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:16 pm

expressman33 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:40 pm
William Joseph1 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:51 pm

You do no good to your cause, but just highlight your own prejudices and gullibility.
I know it's a spoof letter but there is some truth in it . So explain why is it good to be paid subsidies not to produce something ?
The EU’s common agricultural policy is a big waste of money.
I do not have the time or the will power to dissect the policy read for your self https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Ag ... ral_Policy if it is such a bad thing then why does the UK government want to continue with aspects of it following a no deal Brexit https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-farming ... &gclsrc=ds
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expressman33
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Re: Brexit

Post by expressman33 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:22 pm

William Joseph1 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:16 pm
I do not have the time or the will power to dissect the policy read for your self https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Ag ... ral_Policy if it is such a bad thing then why does the UK government want to continue with aspects of it following a no deal Brexit https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-farming ... &gclsrc=ds
Precisely - "Aspects of it"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... griculture
Last edited by expressman33 on Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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