Brexit

Topical debate, moral dilemmas and quirky questions. Join fellow shareholders in civilised discussions of issues of interest
expressman33
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Re: Brexit

Post by expressman33 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:49 pm

pabenny wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:45 pm
Surely the only way to resolve this is a new referendum. It may not be what the Leavers want, but can they suggest an achievable alternative?
So if remainers win a new referendum would we then have the best of 3 in 3 years time ?

pabenny
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Re: Brexit

Post by pabenny » Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:38 pm

What's changed since 2016 is that is has become clear that withdrawal from the EU is far more complex than the majority of Leave campaigners realised and certainly far more complex than most of the electorate appreciated when they cast their vote.

What might change in the next three years? Very little that will make withdrawal any less complex than now. From here, I don't see any grounds to justify a hypothetical third vote.

Chadwick
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Re: Brexit

Post by Chadwick » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:33 pm

expressman33 wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:49 pm
pabenny wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:45 pm
Surely the only way to resolve this is a new referendum. It may not be what the Leavers want, but can they suggest an achievable alternative?
So if remainers win a new referendum would we then have the best of 3 in 3 years time ?
It's not a best of three though.

It's becoming ever more obvious that the original referendum was not asking the right question. It was intended to get a 'Remain' answer. The other option was 'Leave and do something else' and was not defined, because it was there as a token gesture.

A second referendum should have defined options, so you'd know what you voting for (and not just what you were voting against). But first we need to decide what sort of future relationship we want with the EU. Remember all that talk of Norway and Canada+? Retaining access to the Single Market, or staying in the Customs Union? Well, which one did you vote for? Nobody knows. 'Leave' was just an umbrella term that meant whatever you wanted, but ultimately meant whatever the government of the day wanted. Your interpretation is moot.

However, we've actually got stuck at the first hurdle. We can't even decide how to extricate ourselves successfully, let alone decide on the future. The talk of a second referendum is largely a way of resolving this impasse, which means it's a different question. We could do it right now: May's Deal, No Deal or Remain. It's not a repeat of the same question. Or we could try and get some more appealing options on the table (arguably if we could do that, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now), but that means more time.



*Before anyone says it, the vote should be by Single Transferable Vote ('put them in order of preference' in layman's terms) to avoid splitting the leave vote.
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Sarah
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Re: Brexit

Post by Sarah » Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:01 pm

Short(ish) analysis of the current situation and the week ahead:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1185 ... 20418.html
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expressman33
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Re: Brexit

Post by expressman33 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:55 pm

It is the year 2565 . The British PM visits Brussels for an extension of the Brexit deadline, Hardly anyone can remember where this tradition originated but it is in the history books and every year attracts many tourists from all over the world.

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Re: Brexit

Post by kevinchess1 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:47 pm

Only one more Brexit delay till Christmas. :thumbup:
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kevinchess1
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Re: Brexit

Post by kevinchess1 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:50 pm

🎵Corbyn to the left of me,
Bercow to the right,
Here I am,
Stuck in the Junker EU🎵 :?
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Sarah
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Re: Brexit

Post by Sarah » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:55 pm

kevinchess1 wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:47 pm
Only one more Brexit delay till Christmas. :thumbup:
Image
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Sarah
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Re: Brexit

Post by Sarah » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:24 am

"British journalists have become part of Johnson’s fake news machine"
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opende ... s-machine/
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blythburgh
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Re: Brexit

Post by blythburgh » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:34 am

The Sun, The News of the World, The Daily Mail and The Daily Express have always been part of the fake news machine. Much of what is to do with the EU has been subject to twisted story and fake stories.

And remember Johnson got sacked from one reputable newspaper for making up anti EU stories because he was too lazy to do the journalistic work needed to do a factual story with or without an anti EU bias
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Keep smiling because the light at the end of someone's tunnel may be you, Ron Cheneler

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