And they are off...! General Election 2019

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macliam
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Re: And they are off...! General Election 2019

Post by macliam » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:20 am

blythburgh wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:02 am
A friend has told me more than once that his parents were rather racist but worked to for the local Labour Party. They did not approve of non white people coming to the country. He pointed out they were friends with a non white couple. "Ah but they are different" was their reply.

This is hardly unusual - particularly when you look back in time. Racism was both endemic and open - and it is an ongoing problem because it has not been destroyed, just suppressed. :( It is "tribal" and can seem illogical - many immigrants have complained about discrimination.... and then go on to discriminate against others.
blythburgh wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:02 am
A woman on the TV said she votes Labour "well I have done all my life because my parents did".

I was taught in my Sociology class about deference voters, I have actually known such ones. Thankfully they are getting less and less.
Hmmmm, I'm not so sure - what is undoubtedly on the rise is single-issue voting, but I'm not sure that's an improvement. The vast majority of the UK population are still politically ignorant, because they have never had to grapple with the complexities of politics. You should also have been taught about political origins - because that cuts to the heart of the matter. To oversimplify - at root the major UK parties all stem from an opposition to the status quo, rather than in pursuit of something; the Tories by those who sought to advance the cause of the privileged against the power of the crown; the Liberals by those who sought to curb the excesses of the Tories and Labour to advance the cause of the workers against paternalistic privilege. Beyond this, parties from the left or right, have had little influence - until the arrival of UKIP, etc, which chose to build on a single issue and construct an ideology in deference to that aim.
blythburgh wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:02 am
But I am unhappy that a suitable candidate is sneered at for coming from a Public School background. I want the best person for the job. Not a man or a woman or a public or a state school educated person but the best person.

I agree - and a politician should be someone with the independence of mind and the vision to do what he or she thinks best..... not to blindly follow the dogma of their party or the "wishes of the electorate". However, it is unfortunate that those best trained in the political arts often come from an education where debate is taught and valued - and hone their skills on that. A good debater can convince the audience of things they do not themselves believe... it is a learned skill, not a personal value.
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macliam
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Re: And they are off...! General Election 2019

Post by macliam » Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:38 pm

Here's an interesting site https://tactical.vote/all

It's not likely to be welcome to certain people, but there are some interesting numbers there - I thought the Tories were unbeatable in my own constituency - but they're not.......

I've never been comfortable with tactical voting - but if it's the lesser of two evils, I may just give it a go.
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Re: And they are off...! General Election 2019

Post by expressman33 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:34 pm

Have Labour have changed their stance on Brexit since 2017 when they said they would accept the Brexit Referendum result ? They are now saying we will have another referendum with remain as an option.
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Re: And they are off...! General Election 2019

Post by macliam » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:06 pm

expressman33 wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:34 pm
Have Labour have changed their stance on Brexit since 2017 when they said they would accept the Brexit Referendum result ? They are now saying we will have another referendum with remain as an option.
Labour still say they accept the referendum result - but also that things have moved on and that neither the deal on offer, nor a "no deal" Brexit, are representative of that result. Therefore, should they not be able to achieve a deal which does satisfy their requirements, they have, unwillingly (and VERY unwillingly for Corbyn) swung behind the option of a second vote. Given that a second vote is on the table, they say it would be truly ridiculous for the only options to be between two outcomes that are not acceptable, so there must be the option to reject both - i.e. to remain as members of the EU.

This is in contrast to the Tories, who caused the chaos due to their fear of UKIP and who have now purged those who do not follow party doctrine (to a far greater extent than the much-criticised reselections in Labour). As was seen from the poll amongst Tory party members which saw Brexit as more important than maintaining the union or avoiding recession, Brexit has become an article of faith.

I realise that this might not please those who, unexpectedly, saw Brexit win the first vote - but years of discussion have still not achieved an outcome that will please the majority, let alone everyone, so blind faith is not an option. To retread an old saying "Brexit in haste, resent at leisure".
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Re: And they are off...! General Election 2019

Post by kevinchess1 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:50 pm

Dear Mr Johnson,

I have to say how disappointed at the government lifting the freeze on benefits and giving pensioners another 3% or so. What on earth do these people need money for? They'll only spend it on unnecessary items like gas, electric, and food. These people don't need this stuff. Just how on Earth are you going to manage an 97% pay increase for our beloved MPs now with this reckless spending. Honestly, anyone would think there is an election around the corner or something. :thumbup:
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Re: And they are off...! General Election 2019

Post by macliam » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:19 pm

kevinchess1 wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:50 pm
Dear Mr Johnson,

I have to say how disappointed at the government lifting the freeze on benefits and giving pensioners another 3% or so. What on earth do these people need money for? They'll only spend it on unnecessary items like gas, electric, and food. These people don't need this stuff. Just how on Earth are you going to manage an 97% pay increase for our beloved MPs now with this reckless spending. Honestly, anyone would think there is an election around the corner or something. :thumbup:
The phrase "don't count your chickens" comes to mind; as does "give with one hand and take back with the other". Plus, of course, "How do you tell when Boris is lying?..... His mouth moves"

I can't believe that the other parties suspected there was an ulterior motive in his scrapping the attempt to force his bill through Parliament and calling for an election. Do they really think he's such a devious cad that he'd sell his own (Turkish) grandfather if he thought there was an advantage in it?
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Re: And they are off...! General Election 2019

Post by Boro Boy » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:57 am

Corbyn kicks off the entertainment: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=yo ... ORM=VRDGAR :thumbup:
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Re: And they are off...! General Election 2019

Post by macliam » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:12 pm

Boro Boy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:57 am
Corbyn kicks off the entertainment: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=yo ... ORM=VRDGAR :thumbup:
Very good - is there one of Boris and his 21 MPs?

The manipulation of the film here is almost as clear as the Tories manipulation of the truth.... but then again, they have the same discredited Vote Leave people working with them - and a low enough opinion of the general public - that they think they can sell the same crock of **** a second time.
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Re: And they are off...! General Election 2019

Post by Boro Boy » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:43 pm

macliam wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:12 pm
Boro Boy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:57 am
Corbyn kicks off the entertainment: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=yo ... ORM=VRDGAR :thumbup:
Very good - is there one of Boris and his 21 MPs?

The manipulation of the film here is almost as clear as the Tories manipulation of the truth.... but then again, they have the same discredited Vote Leave people working with them - and a low enough opinion of the general public - that they think they can sell the same crock of **** a second time.
Funny that statement sounds a bit like the fantasy financial statement of the Labour Party which (God forbid ever happens) will end up being paid for, along with the interest payments, by citizens of the UK for evermore! :wave:

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Re: And they are off...! General Election 2019

Post by macliam » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:48 pm

Boro Boy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:43 pm
macliam wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:12 pm
Boro Boy wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:57 am
Corbyn kicks off the entertainment: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=yo ... ORM=VRDGAR :thumbup:
Very good - is there one of Boris and his 21 MPs?

The manipulation of the film here is almost as clear as the Tories manipulation of the truth.... but then again, they have the same discredited Vote Leave people working with them - and a low enough opinion of the general public - that they think they can sell the same crock of **** a second time.
Funny that statement sounds a bit like the fantasy financial statement of the Labour Party which (God forbid ever happens) will end up being paid for, along with the interest payments, by citizens of the UK for evermore! :wave:
Funny you choose to quote the discredited estimate of the cost of an unpublished manifesto ...... how much will Boris cost?
Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get me

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