And they are off...! General Election 2019

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macliam
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Re: And they are off...! General Election 2019

Post by macliam » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:57 pm

Whoops!

Unlike others, I'll leave you to make your own minds up about the subject of this article - read it for yourself:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... radio-show
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Re: And they are off...! General Election 2019

Post by Sarah » Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:34 pm

"The L word, the F word, and contemporary UK politics"

https://davidallengreen.com/2019/12/the ... -politics/
The ultimate problem is not that many politicians lie.

The ultimate problem is far more worrying and far more difficult to resolve.

The ultimate problem is that many voters want to be lied to.

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Re: And they are off...! General Election 2019

Post by macliam » Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:06 pm

Sarah wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:34 pm
"The L word, the F word, and contemporary UK politics"

https://davidallengreen.com/2019/12/the ... -politics/
The ultimate problem is not that many politicians lie.

The ultimate problem is far more worrying and far more difficult to resolve.

The ultimate problem is that many voters want to be lied to.
Sadly, I have to say that this echoes my own conclusion after listening to numerous vox-pops on the radio. I can find no other explanation as to why seemingly rational voters could consider vesting their support to a man with no personal integrity whatsoever and who has previously been sacked for telling lies.

Much as I find little to applaud about the current Labour front bench, the coup d'état staged by a man who then exiled his opponents to a political gulag and surrounded himself by talentless yes-men makes me think of other politicians who came to power via the ballot box. Never has Edmund Burke's statement been truer - "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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Re: And they are off...! General Election 2019

Post by macliam » Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:18 pm

Might this make people reconsider? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 39216.html

If it doesn't, then they've nobody to blame but themselves.....
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Re: And they are off...! General Election 2019

Post by Sarah » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:22 am

"Vote for policies, not personalities"
Get informed for the 2019 general election!

Compare what each party is promising to do - for the issues you care about.
https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/
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Re: And they are off...! General Election 2019

Post by AAAlphaThunder » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:59 am

Sarah wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:47 pm
Voting for the party currently led by Boris Johnson won't 'Get Brexit Done' anytime soon and he surely knows it. It's obvious his plan is simply to Get Britain Stuck where going forward would impose the inevitable negative consequences of leaving the EU but we can't go back anymore. That's what they really have on offer in this election. The spending promises are a sideshow.

Katya Adler expects more UK red lines to be sacrificed if Boris Johnson tries to rush an EU trade agreement next year:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1203 ... 10272.html
Hardly surprising, when you are desperate you will agree to shoot yourself in the foot.

Rule #1 of Negotiating:
For beneficial results, you negotiate with the upper hand.
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Re: And they are off...! General Election 2019

Post by macliam » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:31 pm

AAAlphaThunder wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:59 am
....Rule #1 of Negotiating:
For beneficial results, you negotiate with the upper hand.
Not always, there is such a thing as a negotiated surrender. The secret is to understand your own position and find something your "opponent" also wants, but might lose if everything hits the fan.

Militarily, that can be that they don't lose further resource, or can concentrate what they have on another front - and you try to achieve the least-worst outcome for you on that basis. The UK has some strong cards - security and the financial sector - but has been deluded by the "they need us more than we need them" claims early on. The other factor has been that this is NOT the treaty, where such things would come into play, this is only the cease-fire agreement..... and you do not "win" in a cease-fire agreement.
Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get me

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Re: And they are off...! General Election 2019

Post by AAAlphaThunder » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:04 pm

macliam wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:31 pm
AAAlphaThunder wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:59 am
....Rule #1 of Negotiating:
For beneficial results, you negotiate with the upper hand.
Not always, there is such a thing as a negotiated surrender. The secret is to understand your own position and find something your "opponent" also wants, but might lose if everything hits the fan.

Militarily, that can be that they don't lose further resource, or can concentrate what they have on another front - and you try to achieve the least-worst outcome for you on that basis. The UK has some strong cards - security and the financial sector - but has been deluded by the "they need us more than we need them" claims early on. The other factor has been that this is NOT the treaty, where such things would come into play, this is only the cease-fire agreement..... and you do not "win" in a cease-fire agreement.
We are not at war.
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macliam
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Re: And they are off...! General Election 2019

Post by macliam » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:53 pm

AAAlphaThunder wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:04 pm
macliam wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:31 pm
AAAlphaThunder wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:59 am
....Rule #1 of Negotiating:

Not always, there is such a thing as a negotiated surrender. The secret is to understand your own position and find something your "opponent" also wants, but might lose if everything hits the fan.

Militarily, that can be that they don't lose further resource, or can concentrate what they have on another front - and you try to achieve the least-worst outcome for you on that basis. The UK has some strong cards - security and the financial sector - but has been deluded by the "they need us more than we need them" claims early on. The other factor has been that this is NOT the treaty, where such things would come into play, this is only the cease-fire agreement..... and you do not "win" in a cease-fire agreement.
We are not at war.
You could have fooled me!
Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get me

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Re: And they are off...! General Election 2019

Post by expressman33 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:24 pm

Labour ( and the Greens and Lib Dems) are "considering" a Land Value Tax which could cost property owners £8 per sq m of land per annum where I live. This means if your house is on a plot of land measuring 10m x 20m you could be charged £1,600 per annum. - Based on 3% of the value of their land ( including what their house stands on ) per annum - value of residential land in Stockport in 2017 was £2,655,000 per hectare ( 10,000 sq m ).

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nt-budgets https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3680000/l ... value-tax/ https://www.labourland.org/ https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 39186.html https://www.taxpayersalliance.com/the_c ... garden_tax
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