RIP Caroline Flack

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blythburgh
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RIP Caroline Flack

Post by blythburgh » Mon Feb 17 2020 10:21am

When I heard she had been charged with assaulting her boyfriend my reaction was that I hoped it would encourage other men who have a violent partner to come forward.

Was she innocent or guilty? We will never know now but I am 100% convinced that the media played a large part in her death. Apparently a vulnerable woman with a history of mental health problems but the media used this court case to attack her.

And why is she referred to as a cougar because she has had romances with rich and famous younger men? If the man had been her age and she the man's age nothing would have been said.
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Re: RIP Caroline Flack

Post by kevinchess1 » Mon Feb 17 2020 10:57am

Always sad when someone feels the need to take their own life
Just goes to show that fame doesn’t buy happiness

I’ll say a prayer
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jaytee
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Re: RIP Caroline Flack

Post by jaytee » Mon Feb 17 2020 8:16pm

Reported on plymouthherald.co.uk, today.

Caroline Flack's death is a heartbreaking end to a life that reached millions through her celebrity status. The outpouring of grief - and indeed anger - that her death has prompted is understandable.

Her death truly is awful.

But domestic violence is also truly awful - no matter who is committing it.

Criticising the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) for taking the decision to prosecute Caroline - and even blaming the CPS for her death - is unfair, dangerous and does a huge disservice to not just victims of domestic violence, but also to those people struggling with mental health issues who don't go around bashing their partners over the head with blunt objects while they sleep.

Men and women alike may both feel too ashamed or embarrassed to come forward as domestic violence victims. They may worry about the impact a conviction will have on their children. They may be scared that speaking out will just prompt an escalation in the abuse they are suffering. They may be bullied and cajoled and coerced into claiming they are not a victim, into believing that they are somehow responsible for the violence inflicted upon them.

Often, victims will refuse to press charges and backtrack on any allegations they originally made.

And so the CPS has to decide, after reviewing the evidence to see if there is a realistic chance of conviction, if it's in the public interest (and not just of interest to the public, as Caroline's life undoubtedly was) to push on with the case regardless.

The prosecutors decided the case against Caroline passed this two stage test and she was charged with a crime - domestic violence - that disgusts mosts decent people.

In a hypothetical case, police turn up to the council flat home of the jobless Scroaty McScroatface, after receiving a 999 call from his wife or partner who claims Scroaty has just tried to kill her.

On arrival, officers find a scene they compare to a horror movie. Mrs McScroatface is covered in blood from a head-wound which she says was caused by a blow to her head with a lamp while she slept.

A distressed Mr McScroatface admits that he did it. He is arrested and later charged, even though Mrs McScroatface later claims she is not a victim. The CPS disregard this and charge McScroatface, because the evidence suggests there is realistic chance of conviction and they believe it is in the public interest to prosecute people if they bash their partner over the head with lamp, while they sleep, in a fit of temper.

For reasons known only to himself and his defence lawyer at this stage, Mr McScroatface pleads not guilty, and a trial date is set after the court is told the facts of the case, as outlined above.

The local press reports the court hearing and, apart from a few of his close friends who know about his mental health struggles and that Scroaty is usually a lovely bloke and no trouble when he's playing darts with the boys down the pub, very few people have a shred of sympathy for poor Mr Scroatface.

Even when he's found dead, a few weeks before the trial, those expressing sympathy are mainly only those who knew him for the troubled but usually loving soul they say he was, apart from when he was attacking his partner while she slept with a blunt instrument.

In the above scenario, most reasonable people would agree the CPS were right to bring charges, potentially to protect Mrs McScroatface - or another potential victim - from further bludgeonings, but also to send a message to abusive spouses that domestic violence is not acceptable. To send the message that while mental health issues and personality disorders may be a reason for bullying, coercive, abusive or violent behaviour in a relationship, they do not excuse it.

Having mental health issues does not give Mr McScroatface, or anybody else, a free pass to behave abominably.

If having a mental health issue or a personality disorder were valid defences for any and every crime, violent or otherwise, the crime statistics would be lower than they are now, our prisons wouldn't be quite so crowded - and streets would be even less safer.

That said, it's important to restate that the vast majority of people with mental health issues and personality disorders are decent law abiding citizens who don't go round attacking their partners with lamps while they sleep, or committing other despicable crimes, violent or otherwise.

However, sadly some, like Scroaty, do.

And if anyone is to blame for Scroaty McScroatface's death, it is a society that leaves mental health issues undiagnosed, uncared for and untreated until the sufferer's state of mind deteriorates to the point that they are a danger to themselves or others, and the only people left to deal with the fallout are the police - who, it has to be said, usually do a magnificent job.

Caroline Flack warned police she would kill herself after alleged assault on boyfriend

As sad as what has happened to Ms Caroline Flack is, the bigger tragedy is that - with the resources and connections she had available to her - she will have had far more opportunity to get help and support with her mental health demons than poor old Scroaty ever did.

And it's at this point people start pointing a finger at the press and scream "it's your fault", you hounded poor Scroaty death by reporting his court case.

In another hypothetical case, in a parallel universe where people actually gave a damn about Scroaty, police turn up to the ancestral stately home of Media Mogul Lord Scroat of Scroat Hall, after receiving a 999 call from his wife, who claims Lord Scroat had tried to kill her with a candelabra. On arrival, officers find a scene they compare to horror movie... I think you probably get the picture by now.

However, this time around the press has decided it will no longer cover court cases, because of the outrage caused by poor Scroaty's death.

Lord Scroat also pleads not guilty. And the magnanimous Magistrates accept this plea because of Lord Scroat's previous good character, which they can all vouch for, as they play golf with him twice a week down at the country club, where he's not been his usual jolly self, but the poor old chap has a lot on his plate, what with running that massive media empire of his and all that.

So Lord Scroat returns home to Scroat Hall, an innocent man, and all is harmonious.

For a week or two.

Until Lord Scroat (rightly or wrongly) gets it in his head that Lady Scroat has wronged him in some way, and brutally batters her death, in the library, with a candelabra.

Then people start pointing a finger at the press and screaming "it's your fault", you helped cover this up by not covering his court case, because you're in Media Mogul Lord Scroat's pockets, along with the local judicary...

Because they know that the press coverage of court cases is vital, regardless of the crime, or who the accused is or isn't, because this coverage shines a spotlight on the judicial system, and this scrutiny helps keep the process transparent, fair and accountable. And these court reports might even help to save someone's life, by giving early warnings that the 'nice' person they met on the internet and have started dating might actually be a bit of a psychopath.

Press coverage of domestic violence cases also has an important role to play in raising awareness that domestic violence is awful, and that while mental health maybe a mitigating circumstance, it is not a carte blanch get-out-of-jail-free card.

It spreads the message that nobody should be subjected to physical violence in a normal, loving, healthy relationship.

The outrage and shock these cases rightly cause can also help rehabilitate the perpetrators, by demonstrating that the public will never condone or turn a blind to domestic violence, because it is unacceptable behaviour, regardless of who is committing it, or the demons they may have.

RIP CF
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Re: RIP Caroline Flack

Post by macliam » Mon Feb 17 2020 9:20pm

It's sad when anyone takes their own life.

I didn't know the lady, I don't know the circumstances, I don't know what demons she may have been battling.

But one thing's for sure, if the UK press get their claws into you, it's bad news.

They build you up to knock you down - and cash in on both directions of travel.
Last edited by macliam on Mon Feb 17 2020 9:46pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RIP Caroline Flack

Post by cccashbacklover » Mon Feb 17 2020 9:33pm

blythburgh wrote:
Mon Feb 17 2020 10:21am

Was she innocent or guilty? We will never know now but I am 100% convinced that the media played a large part in her death.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 38606.html

"Highbury Corner Magistrates’ Court heard that, in the aftermath of the alleged incident, Ms Flack told police “I did it” and then warned she would kill herself. She was arrested and charged with assault by beating after police were called to her Islington flat on 12 December"

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/ ... KFljN0lHM8

"The court was also told that when Flack was being questioned by the police “she said, ‘I did it’ and said under caution that she will kill herself”.
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Re: RIP Caroline Flack

Post by blythburgh » Tue Feb 18 2020 10:57am

Begs the question why family and friends were not making sure she was not left alone for long periods. She needed someone with her all the time really.

Saying "I did it" is not the same as being found guilty in court. Why did she do it? Was it in self defence? Was she suffering from a paranoid illness that caused her to lash out? Or was she drunk/a violent woman who needed no excuse for violence.

A friend married in haste a woman who lived a fair distance away, he walked out after a month of violence, needed very little excuse for her to turn on him.
Keep smiling because the light at the end of someone's tunnel may be you, Ron Cheneler

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Re: RIP Caroline Flack

Post by macliam » Tue Feb 18 2020 4:11pm

It's not that uncommon. The illusion is that domestic violence is perpetrated by the man, but it can equally be the woman - or the children. Of course, it is generally more extreme where a man is the culprit - but that is not to say that a woman cannot abuse her partner..... and PMT is as much a causative factor of extreme behaviour as drunkenness.

Some women definitely wear the trousers..... and I have SWMBOs permission to say that :shifty:



That's not true of course, she's in Portugal, looking after the dogs ;)
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Re: RIP Caroline Flack

Post by BeautifulSunshine » Wed Feb 19 2020 9:00am

RIP.
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Re: RIP Caroline Flack

Post by blythburgh » Wed Feb 19 2020 9:31am

Women and children can be just as abusive as men but it is really only acceptable by the great British public for a woman to admit to be a victim of male violence.

And PMT can be a cause as can drugs/alcohol but in the case of my friend the wife was stone cold sober when she attacked him and over the menopause so that was not a cause either. She, like so many who batter their partners, was a control freak and general nasty piece of work
Keep smiling because the light at the end of someone's tunnel may be you, Ron Cheneler

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Re: RIP Caroline Flack

Post by macliam » Wed Feb 19 2020 3:13pm

Without wishing to prolong this thread, I think the attached is worth reading before reaching an opinion.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51557180

I don't know the truth. I suspect we never will, but I can appreciate that someone in the position she paints so vividly is likely to be in a dark place.

RIP
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