Coronavirus/COVID-19 part 2

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macliam
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19 part 2

Post by macliam » Fri Dec 03 2021 12:49pm

But what is the answer?
How do you overcome the reticence of large numbers of people to protect themselves and others?
How do you dry up a well of potential infection within national boundaries to allow you to concentrate on fighting new infections?
You can sense the frustration of officials - and it has been proven that those governments that defer taking the hard decisions end up with greater health crises - would you rather have been in New Zealand or Brazil during the pandemic to date?
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19 part 2

Post by Richard Frost » Fri Dec 03 2021 1:04pm

I am not sure there is an easy answer. But I am not sure the right route is to force people. How will it end up? Do we get the police in to hold and strap people down in order to put a needle in an individuals arm. Do we go down the Greek route of fining refuseniks and why just the over 60s?

https://www.bloombergquint.com/politics ... le-over-60

Persuasion IMO is a much better route although I accept it is never going to work 100%. Is it feasible that countries can vaccinate 100% of their population even though large swathes of the world remain unvaccinated? I accept that the over 60s are more at risk than younger people. But I am not convinced they should be singled out to pay a health Levy (sic)
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19 part 2

Post by macliam » Fri Dec 03 2021 1:43pm

Governments are still trying to get to grips with this - however, if someone is a "Typhoid Mary", would we applaud anyone who allowed them to infect dozens of people due to their own intransigence?

These days, we have thousands of such peoiple - forming self-support groups and attempting to proselytize others to believe their conspiracy theories. Unlike Typhoid mary, these people are not just responsible for their own actions but guilty of encouraging others to endanger others......

I see no reason to discriminate between different age goups, ethnic groups or any other subdivision of society, because we are either all impacted or nobody is. Whilst there are many and varied reports of the impact of Covid on people of varying ages, there is no real consensus and much contradictory evidence. There is no proof that older people are more likely to become infected, but they are generally more at risk of experiencing serious health complications as a result of infection, and so becoming "visible" statistics - because it's difficult to track asymptomic infection. Older people are also more likely to die from infections, because many die as a result of underlying health issues and older people are more likely to have such problems - but younger people with such health issues also die.

Finally, a personal illustration of the idiocy of some commentary. My sister is 12 years older than me, but a healthy 79 year-old double cancer survivor, her daughter is a 45 year-old special needs teacher and her grandaughter is an 8 year-old schoolgirl. Last week, the grandaughter started to cough and feel unwell, so my sister took her temperature, which was above average. When my niece got home, she used one of her lateral flow tests on the grandaughter and very quickly it showed positive. So they got a PCR test done on all of them - neither my sister nor my niece showed any infection, but the grandaughter had Covid!! This isn't a surprise as my niece has been testing herself regularly due to her font-line job and is double vaxed and my sister has already had her booster. But they are all in isolation.

However, the grandaughter has been really unwell and had no appetite because she had no sense of taste or smell...... so giving the lie to the claim that young children either don't get the virus or don't suffer any symptoms from it.......
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19 part 2

Post by Chadwick » Sat Dec 04 2021 12:24pm

The anti-vaxxers will be quick to point out that the vaccine does not prevent you from catching covid, and nor does it prevent you passing it on. (It gives you a faster recovery with less severe symptoms and it reduces onward transmission - possibly due to the less severe illness and shorter recovery time, and perhaps a tendency for more caution in vaccinated people).

However, that is not the point of these restrictions. It's not about the individual, it's about the population as a whole and the country's ability to cope with the number of ill people.

If lots of people get ill and need doctor/hospital treatment, there is a risk that the medical infrastructure cannot cope. We are very aware of that in the UK. To reduce the numbers of people needing hospital care, we can either vaccinate people or reduce the chances of catching covid. These restrictions on unvaccinated people are intended to do the latter by reducing the opportunities for them to catch covid.

If enough people get vaccinated, it will reduce the risk to a level where the health services can cope and we will probably treat covid like flu. Annual booster jab and perhaps testing.

There is another problem however. While case numbers are high (even amongst mildly ill people), the risk to the vulnerable is also high, despite vaccinations. High case numbers also mean greater chances of a malevolent variant emerging. So although vaccines help, we still need to reduce the overall case numbers.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19 part 2

Post by Richard Frost » Sat Dec 04 2021 12:42pm

macliam wrote:
Fri Dec 03 2021 1:43pm
Governments are still trying to get to grips with this - however, if someone is a "Typhoid Mary", would we applaud anyone who allowed them to infect dozens of people due to their own intransigence?
The Typhoid Mary analogy certainly gave me some food for thought.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19 part 2

Post by pakefield » Sat Dec 04 2021 2:18pm

My niece ended up believing that drugs and vaccines were harmful some years ago. My sister does what her daughter does. The husbands do as they are told.

Needless to say none of them are vaccinated and no masks. Sister is claustrophobic so cannot wear a cloth mask and refuses to wear see through ones though I think they only help protect her not the rest of us. Her husband also wears the lanyard to say he is exempt from wearing a mask. Why? He is epileptic but has not had any seizures this century. A friend without a computer asked us to check as he is also epileptic. The Epilepsy Society clearly said sufferers should mask up.

Sister does sound a bit unsure on the phone though will not say so directly. But however unsure she is her daughter will go on and on ad nauseum about why she should not be vaccinated and how the figures are lies etc.

I would have an easier task talking to the niece's dogs and getting them to say the vaccine was safe and necessary than any of the adults.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19 part 2

Post by macliam » Sat Dec 04 2021 2:21pm

Richard Frost wrote:
Sat Dec 04 2021 12:42pm
macliam wrote:
Fri Dec 03 2021 1:43pm
Governments are still trying to get to grips with this - however, if someone is a "Typhoid Mary", would we applaud anyone who allowed them to infect dozens of people due to their own intransigence?
The Typhoid Mary analogy certainly gave me some food for thought.
Different times, but relevant nonetheless. For those who might not know, she was asymptomatic and forcibly detained in the end, due to her violent denial of any responsibility for the sickness she caused in others.....
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19 part 2

Post by macliam » Sat Dec 04 2021 2:25pm

pakefield wrote:
Sat Dec 04 2021 2:18pm
My niece ended up believing that drugs and vaccines were harmful some years ago. My sister does what her daughter does. The husbands do as they are told.

Needless to say none of them are vaccinated and no masks. Sister is claustrophobic so cannot wear a cloth mask and refuses to wear see through ones though I think they only help protect her not the rest of us. Her husband also wears the lanyard to say he is exempt from wearing a mask. Why? He is epileptic but has not had any seizures this century. A friend without a computer asked us to check as he is also epileptic. The Epilepsy Society clearly said sufferers should mask up.

Sister does sound a bit unsure on the phone though will not say so directly. But however unsure she is her daughter will go on and on ad nauseum about why she should not be vaccinated and how the figures are lies etc.

I would have an easier task talking to the niece's dogs and getting them to say the vaccine was safe and necessary than any of the adults.
Maybe such people should be broadcast, because it's hard to see how any "normal" person would want to be associated with them.......

There is no accounting for the self-centred, selfish and delusional behaviour of those caught up in the conspiracy theory whirlwind.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19 part 2

Post by Sarah » Wed Dec 08 2021 6:44pm

Plan B is here.

Too late, as always.

EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59585307
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19 part 2

Post by Chadwick » Thu Dec 09 2021 10:14pm

Sarah wrote:
Wed Dec 08 2021 6:44pm
Plan B is here.

Too late, as always.

EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59585307
There's a rumour that he brought that announcement forward to create a smokescreen to hide #partygate.

I note that the correspondents were having none of it at the presser. Quite happy to keep asking the same question - "you knew about the party, didn't you?"
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