Changes to the NIP

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macliam
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Changes to the NIP

Post by macliam » Tue Apr 26 2022 1:48pm

The Financial Times reported on Friday that Johnson and Truss have approved plans for legislation allowing the UK to make unilateral changes to the Northern Ireland Protocol (NIP).

This has been criticised by Nationalist parties in NI, in the runup to a significant election https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irelan ... -1.4859455

Now the risks to any trade deal with the USA have resurfaced uk-scotland...iness-61216367 but although this has been stated before, it doesn't seem to compute with the Brexieers.

Also, the suggestion that any unilateral change to the NIP might result in an immediate hardline response from the EU has them bleating that this could not happen because "The EU would lose more than us by blocking trade". Apart from the fact that this has been disproved before..... such people don't seem to realise that the EU would have no choice but to exclude UK trade, since it would undermine EU key principles.... which are more important than short-term trade issues.

So, the idea of reneging on an agreed international treaty is not enough, the idea that it would provoke a very damaging reaction from both the EU and the USA is dismissed..... and the fact that it might not actually be wanted by the majority in NI (who voted against Brexit) AND threatens the strong growth that NI has seen due to its privileged position counts for nothing. Altogether, sounds like business-as-usual Brexiteer unicorn thinking!!
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Re: Changes to the NIP

Post by blythburgh » Wed Apr 27 2022 10:52am

Go back on our word and bring our country into disgrace but that is not important compared to "Get Brexit done" and get Councillors elected
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Re: Changes to the NIP

Post by macliam » Thu Apr 28 2022 2:05pm

blythburgh wrote:
Wed Apr 27 2022 10:52am
Go back on our word and bring our country into disgrace but that is not important compared to "Get Brexit done" and get Councillors elected
Worse, is the lie that this is being done for the benefit of those in NI, when in fact it is just to support the DUP who were the only ones to support Brexit. It is a blatant attempt to force the EU into reacting by imposing trade restrictions, thus "justifying" the Brexiteer rhetoric about EU intransigence.

It is on a par with Putin's lies about Ukraine. If a hard border in re-imposed in Ireland and it sparks a return to conflict, Johnson will seek to blame others, when he is the one lighting the match......
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Re: Changes to the NIP

Post by fanny15 » Fri Apr 29 2022 8:01am

And here's me thinking they were going to change the size of my Scotch Whisky measure! :oops:
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Re: Changes to the NIP

Post by macliam » Fri Apr 29 2022 12:46pm

fanny15 wrote:
Fri Apr 29 2022 8:01am
And here's me thinking they were going to change the size of my Scotch Whisky measure! :oops:
Ah well, it used to be that measures in Ireland were 50% larger (1/4 Gill) and in NI and Scotland 25% larger (1/5 Gill) than in stingy England (and Wales), but since the early C21st these "offocial" measures have been relaxed and many places in England now take the opportunity to charge far more for the same measure as elsewhere....

When I was in Ireland, the apocryphal tale was of the Englishman asking for a glass of whisk(e)y and lemonade at the bar and being surprised when he received a triple measure (by English standards) of Irish whiskey (of course!) and with a bottle of what looked like lucozade.

This was because the measure was 50% bigger, "a glass" meant a double (you always asked for a half-glass of whiskey), Irish whiskey was standard unless you asked for Scotch and "lemonade" meant "country lemonade" which looked like lucozade, as opposed to the clear lemonade in England. Clear lemonade was referred to as "white" lemonade..... so had he asked for a half-glass of Scotch and white (or just a "Scotch and white"), he would have got what he wanted!
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Re: Changes to the NIP

Post by macliam » Mon May 02 2022 11:11am

A "leaders debate" ahead of the elections in NI have gone as might be expected.... The DUP have accused Sinn Féin of concentrating on the border and dealing with active terrorists and have, in turn, been accused of pulling down Stormont for their own political motives.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-61294324

Sinn Féin leader Michelle O'Neill was attacked because her party has been speaking to the "New IRA", who are the group responsible for the murder of journalist Lyra McKee. She replied that, whilst SF did not condone the killing, or continued violence, it was committed to attempts to bring dissident groups back into the mainstream. It does seem that many of the arguments being used against SF in the debate were reruns of the same arguments used against talking to them in the first place, before the GFA - and these were disappointingly echoed by the UUP, SDLP and Alliance leaders.

Sir Jeffrey Donaldson, leader of the DUP, was accused of pulling down the executive and leaving £300m unspent, which could have been used to offset the cost-of-living crisis. His claim that the money could still have been used by the SF Finance minister, in the absence of a First minister and working executive, was branded as "dishonest" and his claims that the minor parties are acting in their own best interests as "a scurrilous allegation." by the leader of the Alliance party.

It is expected that both the main parties will lose seats, but that the DUP will lose more - leaving SF as the biggest party for the first time. This would mean that Michelle O'Neill could claim the First Minister position, but the DUP has already said that they would then not nominate a deputy.... and thus prevent the Assembly from sitting.

If the Assembly does get off the ground, there are several other "changes" that may or may not be realised as part of this election. It is to be seen whether the nationalist vote (SF&SDLP) is greater than the unionist (DUP&UUP) vote for the first time and how far the non-sectarian Alliance party advances its own share of the vote. If SF become the main party and the nationalist parties outvote the unionists, this also opens the way to serious consideration of the border issue - and puts in place a party of government in NI that does not support the UK government over Brexit or the NIP.
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Re: Changes to the NIP

Post by Chadwick » Mon May 02 2022 11:28am

They're like a bunch of squabbling children.
"He did it first!"
"Yeah, but she said this!"
"You said that!"

Can't we just put them all in a room until they sort it out? An airtight room perhaps?
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Re: Changes to the NIP

Post by macliam » Mon May 02 2022 11:45am

Chadwick wrote:
Mon May 02 2022 11:28am
They're like a bunch of squabbling children.
"He did it first!"
"Yeah, but she said this!"
"You said that!"

Can't we just put them all in a room until they sort it out? An airtight room perhaps?
Any different to other politicians?
Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get me

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Re: Changes to the NIP

Post by blythburgh » Mon May 02 2022 3:07pm

macliam wrote:
Mon May 02 2022 11:45am
Chadwick wrote:
Mon May 02 2022 11:28am
They're like a bunch of squabbling children.
"He did it first!"
"Yeah, but she said this!"
"You said that!"

Can't we just put them all in a room until they sort it out? An airtight room perhaps?
Any different to other politicians?
Yes because they take the squabbling children to a new level. And they can feed those who think violence is the only answer
Keep smiling because the light at the end of someone's tunnel may be you, Ron Cheneler

macliam
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Re: Changes to the NIP

Post by macliam » Mon May 02 2022 4:38pm

blythburgh wrote:
Mon May 02 2022 3:07pm
macliam wrote:
Mon May 02 2022 11:45am
Chadwick wrote:
Mon May 02 2022 11:28am
They're like a bunch of squabbling children.
"He did it first!"
"Yeah, but she said this!"
"You said that!"

Can't we just put them all in a room until they sort it out? An airtight room perhaps?
Any different to other politicians?
Yes because they take the squabbling children to a new level. And they can feed those who think violence is the only answer
Well answers on a postcard please.... because they're all that there is - and attempting to take their toys away hasn't exactly improved things in the past. For the DUP this may be an existential struggle, because if they lose power and the majority, they may lose relevance. For Sinn Féin, they are pushing for a historic result.... even if that comes by dint of losing less seats than their adversary. Remember, elections are by STV in NI, so it's not the election cycle we're used to.....

The problem is that one side are like Cnut, attempting to hold back the waves of demographic change (as well as the C21st) and desperate to return to the safety of when they had total control.... and the other side are, well, different. If Sinn Féin win, then Westminster will have another regional government who are not in their camp.... and another which may look to increasing independence. Of course, a gain for one side is a loss for the other and it must be galling for the unionists no longer to be able to use the powers of state to suppress dissent.... but that's where we are - and it cost a lot of blood and sorrow to get here.

It's all very well taking the superior "bunch of children attitude", but they were educated into that position by a situation imposed from Westminster and maintained by Whitehall subsidies.... and a generation is too short a time for the sins of 100 years to be forgotten. A Union that is desperate to hold itself together in the face of Brexit is not likely to appreciate an Assembly looking for a future outside the UK.... but what's the alternative? Supporting the DUP has achieved nothing......
Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get me

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