Wakefield

Topical debate, moral dilemmas and quirky questions. Join fellow shareholders in civilised discussions of issues of interest
pabenny
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Re: Wakefield

Post by pabenny » Sat May 21 2022 9:14am

Postal votes are more complex to complete than in-person voting. Has it occurred to you that the warden might have been helping people complete the documents correctly to ensure that their votes were valid?

I were the warden, I think I would also be helping residents to cast their vote, even if I thought they would vote for candidates I did not support.
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macliam
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Re: Wakefield

Post by macliam » Sat May 21 2022 10:14am

The main threat to Labour is that Johnson and his cronies could introduce laws to remove British citizenship without the need to prove any wrongdoing; They could introduce laws that make it illegal to organize a protest against policies you don't like; They could propose to sell off influential media outlets to their mates; They could decide not to prosecute people who defraud the taxpayer out of millions.... but concentrate on making it tough to claim benefits; They could hand out billions to business and for vanity projects, but then claim there's no money to help people at their time of need.... they could do all this and people would accept that it's all for the best and vote for them, because it's better than "the alternative". Not, of course, that they'd dream of doing such profoundly antisocial things...... next you'd suggest they would break the law, lie about it and challenge anyone to dethrone them!

The very thought that voters would be so naive.......
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Re: Wakefield

Post by Richard Frost » Sat May 21 2022 10:39am

In some ways I would hope that at the next election Labour wins but the numbers are such that it has to govern with a pact with the LD's. One of the conditions for LD support would likely be to bring about electoral reform and sound the final death knell of the first past the post system.
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Re: Wakefield

Post by macliam » Sat May 21 2022 10:55am

If that were a guaranteed outcome, I'd go for that - although it is only one of a number of things required to bring the UK into the C21st and to prevent the kind of idiocy we have seen since the last election. What kind of "democratic" system is is that allows one party to have such a huge majority - and to use the whips to prevent MPs voting on conscience - that all the other parties combined have no chance of voting down a bill? What kind of democratic system is it that has "rules" which are so ill-defined that those in power can ignore them without cost? What kind of democratic system is it that has no written constitution to ensure that a governement cannot ignore the parts it doesn't like?

If a law cannot command the approval of the majority of the people's representatives without threats, arm-twisting and other bully-boy tactics, then what is the point of having a vote?
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Re: Wakefield

Post by macliam » Sat May 21 2022 5:25pm

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Re: Wakefield

Post by blythburgh » Mon May 23 2022 11:06am

pabenny wrote:
Sat May 21 2022 9:14am
Postal votes are more complex to complete than in-person voting. Has it occurred to you that the warden might have been helping people complete the documents correctly to ensure that their votes were valid?

I were the warden, I think I would also be helping residents to cast their vote, even if I thought they would vote for candidates I did not support.
The lady was adamant that the warden was standing over people the whole time. We used to help our late neighbour fill in her form. Told her to put her cross by her chosen candidate and put in "this" envelope and seal it. Then call us back, we then went into the kitchen and waited for her to vote in secret. That way she voted in secret but had our help to do so.

But how many postal voters do not do it in secret? Surely the extremely small amount of fraud is almost always due to postal voting not someone impersonating the voter at the polling station. So why do we need to prove we are who we say we are? I still think it is a way to make sure the Tories get more votes and other parties get less. I am still convinced that the people who forget to bring the right documents or come back with them if forgotten will not be Tory voters.
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Re: Wakefield

Post by macliam » Mon May 23 2022 1:40pm

An elderly neighbour of ours was sent to redisential care.... but she had her own apartment within a managed complex. When we visited her she was adamant that the helpers were stealing her milk.... even though her door was locked and the milk was in a fridge in her apartment. "They come in when I go to the toilet" she said. But that was nothing compared to the way they monitored her through the TV.......

Not everything is as it is reported.....

As for the "proof" for voting, if the government actually introduced an ID card like most other countries, nobody would think twice about identifying themselves. In Portugal, every report or interaction with authority requires your identification.... how terribly, terribly intrusive..... Because it's much better to have a Tax/NI number, an NHS number, a Passport number, a "driver identification number" and to give all your personal data to Faceboook, etc., isn't it!
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Re: Wakefield

Post by Chadwick » Mon May 23 2022 2:23pm

macliam wrote:
Mon May 23 2022 1:40pm
As for the "proof" for voting, if the government actually introduced an ID card like most other countries, nobody would think twice about identifying themselves. In Portugal, every report or interaction with authority requires your identification.... how terribly, terribly intrusive..... Because it's much better to have a Tax/NI number, an NHS number, a Passport number, a "driver identification number" and to give all your personal data to Faceboook, etc., isn't it!
One of the great advantages of an ID card was that you could use it to travel throughout the EU. A moot point now for UK citizens, but we always had to take our full passport because that was all we had.
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Re: Wakefield

Post by macliam » Mon May 23 2022 2:34pm

Chadwick wrote:
Mon May 23 2022 2:23pm
macliam wrote:
Mon May 23 2022 1:40pm
As for the "proof" for voting, if the government actually introduced an ID card like most other countries, nobody would think twice about identifying themselves. In Portugal, every report or interaction with authority requires your identification.... how terribly, terribly intrusive..... Because it's much better to have a Tax/NI number, an NHS number, a Passport number, a "driver identification number" and to give all your personal data to Faceboook, etc., isn't it!
One of the great advantages of an ID card was that you could use it to travel throughout the EU. A moot point now for UK citizens, but we always had to take our full passport because that was all we had.
And, of course, entry to the UK via an official ID card is no longer valid (or won't be after 31 December 2025)...... because ...ummm, because it isn't. So, after 30 years SWMBO will have to carry a passport..... even though it actually carries less information than her national ID card and is just a €35 paper copy of part of the information available before.....

This is "obviously" a move to improve security and not just a swipe at EU visitors or residents at all - because, obviously, having less information is far better for Border Force to ignore.
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Re: Wakefield

Post by macliam » Thu May 26 2022 8:48pm

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Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get me

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